When did in-fighting at HW stop being a thing?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by It's Ovah, Sep 1, 2019.


  1. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    I heard of this guy yesterday named Jack Johnson. I watched some of his videos. You should check him out.
     
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  2. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    Ruiz is harder to hit on the inside than Bowe was because of his use of a high active guard plus his handspeed.
     
  3. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    Lewis clinched excessively v Tyson early on as did Holy in his first fight with Mike.
     
  4. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    People who act like clinching is bad thing are strange to me. You can dislike Wladimir for playing safe but it's not his fault that he was too strong in clinches for others. I'm sure he wouldn't have done that to guys like Foreman or Lewis who were just as strong physically. Ali clinched a lot because he was stronger than most fighters and he knew how to clinch. Same with Johnson, all were incrddibly tough to beat in their primes.

    I don't understand why fans dislike infighting so much. Boxing is a fighting sport, if you have advantage on wrestling and mauling opponents just use it!
     
  5. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    We are talking Ali. Not Lewis. Not Holyfield.
     
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  6. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Johnson did not excessively clinch. He controlled. His opponents were in general always free to punch.
     
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  7. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    Wow, Dempsey`s defense was really sloppy here, he was getting caught constantly.
     
  8. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    You familiar with the second fight against Sam McVea?
     
  9. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

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    What Wlad did wasn't remotely similar to what old school fighters did. Wlad groped and almost bear hugged his opponents with the sole intention of preventing them from mounting any sort of offence on the inside. On occasion he actually used his clinch as a weapon to wear out the legs of his opponents by literally standing on tip toes and pressing all his weight down on the backs of their necks. There was no possibility of getting any sort of leverage for legal shots in such a position, and the fact that the referees let him get away with it for years meant that shorter fighters especially were at a tremendous disadvantage when fighting him.

    The clinching that old school fighters did in comparison allowed both men to continue the action, albeit with limited punch selection (mostly body shots and uppercuts) and didn't have any negative effects on either man. On occasion there was some rough housing and wrestling for control of the ring, but it was mostly just a slightly diminished form of regular fighting, and would often break up on its own.

    Ali's clinch was a mix of both. It was used to tie fighters up, but the way he held them (round the back of the neck) still allowed them to get leverage for bodyshots. It limited their offence but didn't totally shut it down.

    Old school clinching I have no problem with. Wlad style clinching is a flagrant abuse of the rules and should be stamped out the next time it looks like it's coming back into fashion.
     
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  10. louis54

    louis54 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    amatuers
     
  11. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

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    Like I said above there were differences in how they clinched. Wlad's clinching completely shut down any offensive options the opposing fighters had and actually drained them due to how physically exhausting it was to constantly have a giant 240lbs man pushing down on you every couple of seconds. It was basically an illegal tactic which he got away with for years. Was it effective? Yes. But so would kneeing your man in the balls every time he tried to throw a combo. Doesn't make it right within the rules.

    Ali's clinching was a behind the head clinch, almost like a loose Thai clinch, that still allowed fighters to work the body. It wasn't quite like the old school Dempsey era clinching that allowed both fighters to work simultaneously but wasn't so egregious as the Wlad bear hugging limpet hold by any stretch of the imagination.
     
  12. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

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    So why did this form of clinch fighting die out? Did it just pass out of fashion, as seems likely, or were there practical reasons for abandoning it?
     
  13. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Change of gloves make you able to do less.
    Refs let you get away with less.
    Shorter fights, as a lot of the in fighting is to wear down an opponent.
     
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  14. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

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    Solid answer.
     
  15. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ali would place his left arm around Frazier’s neck (holding the back of his neck) and grasp Joe’s right arm to clinch