When Did John L. Sulivan Actually Become World Heavyweight Boxing Champion?

Someone had to be the first. And we have to remember that boxing as an organized sport was still in its embryonic stage. Therefore governance of such things as “ world champions “ wasn’t really established. I guess it’s a matter of opinion

 

True. An elimination match for the vacant crown would have been ideal. I guess Sullivan was champion by default

 

Never.

We've been living a lie for 140 years. There is no spoon.

 

I'm with you.

Either the Mitchell or maybe when he beat Paddy Ryan

 

You’re only saying that as a humble brag because you were there working as an usher.

 

Mitchell was it. A light punching middleweight.

 

I will tell you the history of the argument.

The World Heavyweight Title, was originally created, by combining the British and American titles.

Mem Mace was the first fighter to claim the world title. after he defeated Tom Allen.

He then retired with the title Tunney style, and Tom Allen was matched against Joe Goss, for the vacant title.

Goss defeated Allen, and Ryan defeated Goss, so there is a strong argument, that Ryan was the world champion, when Sullivan beat him.

Some however argued that Ryan, and by extension Sullivan, was only he American champion.

Sullivan later defeated Charlie Mitchell, who was then the British champion in a gloved contest, and some argued that this is when the lineage started.

Others argued that it did not count, because it was only a gloved contest.

After Jem Smith defeated Alf Greenfield, he was recognized by some as the British champion.

After Jake Killrain fought Smith to a draw, some inexplicably recognized him as the British and World Champion.

It was argued that Sullivan had vacated the title, because he refused to defend it with bare knuckles.

It was only when Sullivan defeated Killrain, that the matter seems to have been settled, in the eyes of everybody.

Adam Pollack thinks that the Ryan lineage is a legitimate one, and I am inclined to agree.

 

Seems like as good a place to bring this up as any:

Does anyone know why Boxrec doesn’t have Sullivan-Kilrain listed on either man’s record?

It’s one of the most historically significant fights, the outcome was not in dispute, there’s no lack of concrete sourcing as to date, place nor outcome, no doubt whatsoever that it took place … but for some reason it’s not listed.

Interested in any knowledge of why or ideas as to why it would be omitted.

 

Bare-knuckles are excluded or rather meant to be, there are a number that got through the net.

 

Joe Goss was a weak and surprising champion, Miller or Dwyer would be strongly favoured to beat him. Ryan got there first and he had very little pedigree. Sullivan was clearly superior to what was around and England had to trawl to get a decent contender and a middleweight at that. John L became the champion like Wlad and Fury in recent times, simply by people accepting him. For a lot of his reign the Police Gazette did not recognize him, because they had a feud going. I think the Ryan fight is the correct point, the rest is us rewriting history. Jackson over Slavin is the nearest thing to an alternative title fight.

 

But I would submit, probably a legitimate one.

 

Oh yeah, for sure.
BTW, Sully boxed the head off him before the Ryan-Goss fight.

 

So I understand.

He had beaten Goss with gloves, and Ryan with bare knuckles, while each respectively held the claim.

That makes his claim look pretty sold, after he beats Ryan.