When did Joshua's résumé become overrated?

Why wouldn't he ? Dubois was a free title shot, and Usyk was mandatory that fight was eventually going to happen

 

Fair enough, though based on the strength of Dubois' previous performances, one would likely find another way to maneuver the AJ cash cow onto the green pasture of title contention. Granted, they did seem somewhat confident they'd beat him.

 

You forgot to add Old Man to Takam, Green to Whyte who had few pro fights and barely an amateur career, and 282 pounds to Ruiz. Context matters when assessing a resume. Martin, Brezeale, and Wallin (he was never a legitimate top 10) are ALL wins that would fit in well on Wilder's resume which is constantly slated by Joshua fans such as yourself. You're left with Joseph Parker as the top 10, near his prime fighter without an italic qualifier. It's not as deep as the marketing would have you believe.

Add on to all of this four losses which occurred in very different manners (this is VERY bad when assessing a fighter historically) which show that Joshua can be outboxed (Usyk), outslugged (Ruiz), and blitzed (Dubois).

You need to understand that Joshua fans have been claiming he's the #1 HW from 2016 until just after the second Usyk fight in 2022. The Ruiz Jr. loss was explained away as a "fluke", the first Usyk fight just required Joshua to be "more aggressive" and in the mean time he's still regarded by this gullible fanbase as #1.

It's not insane whatsoever to consider Joshua overrated as he has been massively overrated for nearly a decade. He isn't the goods. He was a flash in the pan fighter who beat some high level competition in 2017 and 2018 and faltered shortly after that. What's insane is posters like you, desperate to prop up a fighter who just can't deliver (because he is OVER RATED). Time and again you'll be shocked at "upset" defeats involving Joshua because you can't put 2 and 2 together.

 

Joshua had two less fights than Whyte. Just as green. Chisora beating Takam in his next fight is considered one of his better wins, and it's definitely not the years-later shadow Bakole or Yoka (unsuccessfully) faced. Ruiz is a fair point though given the massive landslide of a scorecards, and the success Joshua had in the first fight before he got rocked trying to rip Ruiz's face off—I reckon the result is still the same as long as Joshua sticks and moves.

Not entertained by the strawman assault on Usyk fight excuses (as I never made any and repeatedly bashed one judge giving the nod to AJ in the rematch) but if you want to vent some frustrations, then go on.

Going through unbeaten Martin and Breazeale is still good, especially given his willingness to go for the ranked contenders later on. Resume is measured on various dimensions.

 

Joshua being "won" Olympic gold and had far more high level boxing experience than Whyte; their experience levels aren't equal and Whyte is most definitely Green in their fight. Takam was in his late 30's, had been stopped before, and would get stopped immediately after, then go on to do nothing. He was a certified Old Man. Your problem is clearly shown here with your point about Ruiz. You believe in Joshua the boxer, Joshua the fighter, when he himself does not. A 260lb contender Ruiz willing to go through hell isn't easily jabbed away by ANY version of Joshua. He just got out jabbed by an aggressive Dubois.

I'm not trying to entertain you, I'm explaining the situation of Joshua being overrated to you. You can't seem to understand how a golden goose HW fighter with a billion dollar marketing campaign, a TV network, and the top promoter could be overrated. You just can't fathom it.

To your last point, again, these are wins that Wilder is slated for as nothing wins (in the case of Breazeale, it's the exact same win but better). Four losses and counting.

 

Joshua had fifty or so amateur bouts, and whilst it considerably more than Whyte, on top of going to the Olympics, Dillian was far from a newcomer to the fighting game. When they fought in the amateurs in 2009, he was already an accomplished kickboxer (two times British heavyweight champion; European K1 champion; ranked as British #1 for numerous years.) Different sports, but experience of combat, professionalism, and body mechanics along with some other aspects still translate very well. Whyte was in the fighting game before Joshua even started. If you dig enough, he was arguably a somewhat seasoned fighter at the time.

And while you slander the Takam win (with Carlos being on the wrong side of thirties) you can add him being an extremely late replacement for Kubrat Pulev, but it once again shows how Joshua was willing to face his mandatories, IBF in that case. Moving the goalpost shamelessly.

Ruiz is not Dubois. Daniel has much heavier, arguably better timed jab and reach advantage. He is also more proactive, aggressive, and bull-like in his recent showings as opposed to plodding, fast-handed but immobile counter-puncher in Andy Ruiz.

 

I don’t think Joshua was bad, but this version of Wlad was old, shot, and coming out of retirement. Fury beat a younger, active version far easier and didn’t have to go life and death with him.

 

It's quite strange how I've seen people try and dispute facts like this. Vitali even told him not to go for the KO when he had joshua in trouble

 

Even when he was ktfo by an unranked tubster?

 

That has to be up there with the dumbest decisions I’ve seen from a corner. He told his brother to box Joshua when he had him hurt and allowed him back into the fight. To this day (especially with the benefit of hindsight knowing how poor Joshua’s recovery is), I believe had Wlad elected to finish it, he would’ve won his title back.

 

With Ruiz I. He destroyed him and his resume.

 

I’ve always said that he let Joshua off the hook because of the hard drive he had sewn into the sleeve of his gown that was going to be auctioned off for his charity .

 

Seems like the only points you're clinging to are "Whyte was green, yes, but Joshua was also green" and "sure he fought an old guy who went on to do nothing, but he was going to fight a different mediocre guy". Is that it?

Dubois has lost to Joyce (by jab), Usyk (by jab), and arguably got stopped by Lerena. He was in slug fests against Hrgo and Miller. He's not some unbeatable god. The blueprint is there: JAB. Guess who couldn't do that? The guy you claim would easily jab away a prime Ruiz.

The problem with Joshua fans like yourself is you have no reference point for hypothetical matchups. An image of a fighter has been sold to you by a corporation and you're following a sport you don't understand the nuance of. Any hypothetical matchup has you spewing out all the hype you've consumed despite history, and despite what will actually happen. In your mind, a "prime" (whatever the hell that is) Joshua beats everyone. He beats Fury. He beats Wilder. According to you, he even beats Ruiz Jr. in New York on that night if he fights slightly different.

Four losses. One win over top 10 prime competition.

 

On here, he was always overrated, most notably after the Wlad fight, where the lid blew off.

Some in this thread are still saying Joshua was #1 until Fury beat Wilder in 2020.

But by 2018, Wilder had successfully defended against better fighters ... the undefeated Fury (who started the year the Ring champ and who Wilder floored twice in their classic first fight) and the undefeated Ortiz (who Wilder floored three times and stopped) were better than anyone Joshua had faced to that point.

By the summer of 2019, after Wilder demolished Breazeale and Joshua got dropped repeatedly and quit against Ruiz ... Joshua was, at most, the fourth best heavyweight.

Joshua wasn't even considered the best heavyweight from the UK at that point.

Wilder and Fury were the two best heavyweights in the second half of the 2010s.

Their names and classic wars are forever linked in heavyweight history.

While they faced off in classic fights, Joshua never fought either.

Hell, the 2020s are nearly half over, and Joshua still hasn't gotten around to fighting either.

Joshua spent all of 2023 fighting "tune-ups" (Franklin, Helenius, Wallin) to get ready for a shot Wilder.

 

Paper Champions always fall apart in live tests - Joshua has zero elite traits and was never that good in the first place.