when did Light heavyweight first become an exclusive division?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by choklab, May 21, 2015.


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  1. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Who was the first career lightheavyweight champion who never faced a heavyweight?

    All the lightheavyweight champions I can think of took fights with heavyweights. Many of them most years they were active.

    When did the devision start to exist as a division of lightheavyweights fighting only lightheavyweights?

    I am beginning to think the clue is in the title and that the title existed BEFORE the division did. For many years everything over middle was a heavyweight. A lot of smaller or lighter heavyweights among regular heavyweights within the same division together.

    Was the LH title just something a small heavyweight could use as a springboard for a crack at the main crown?
     
    choklab, May 21, 2015
    choklab, May 21, 2015
    #1
  2. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The Light Heavyweight (Cruiserweight in the UK) first came to the attention in the early 20th century. With the great Bob Fitzsimmons generally being considered the first champion.
     
    TBooze, May 21, 2015
    TBooze, May 21, 2015
    #2
  3. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Yes I know that, but who was the first LH champ to start as a genuine Lightheavyweight who retired having never faced a Heavyweight in the ring?

    Bob Fitz fought many heavyweights and he was the first one. Henry Lewis, Levinsky, Carpentier, Conn, Laughran, Mills, Harold Johnson, Pastrano, Foster, Torres all fought heavyweights.

    Who was the first one? When did it become a real division?
     
    choklab, May 21, 2015
    choklab, May 21, 2015
    #3
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    If you got the answer to this what would it prove?
    Jack Root's manager is credited with the creation of the division because Root was too small for the heavies .

    Root fought George Gardner in a contest billed as for both the Middle and lhvy championships , both men were just over 160lbs.
    Some say Joe Choynski deserves to be recognized as the first champ.
    Tommy Burns and Jack O Brien fought for the heavyweight title whilst both were inside the lhvy limit. Burns won and could have claimed both titles but he didn't bother.If you want the answer to which light heavyweight champion never fought a man above175lbs ,you'd better get busy on Box Rec!
     
    mcvey, May 21, 2015
    mcvey, May 21, 2015
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  5. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Yes I understand. I just want to know if anyone knows who was the first genuine career lightheavyweight among its champions.

    I thought it was John Conteh but then I remembered he fought a few heavyweights too. I just cant think if there was an earlier one or not?
     
    choklab, May 21, 2015
    choklab, May 21, 2015
    #5
  6. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The early 20th century saw recognition. If you do not consider recognition as the value you are looking for and are going down the path of abstraction, then you could name any time.


    And if you are using weight; has any 'champion' with a career of at least 20 fights fought every fight, with both them at the opponent at the weight limit of the division?

    Outside Heavyweight, I doubt it...
     
    TBooze, May 21, 2015
    TBooze, May 21, 2015
    #6
  7. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Marvin Hagler was always a middleweight..


    Who was always a lightheavyweight?
     
    choklab, May 21, 2015
    choklab, May 21, 2015
    #7
  8. kingfisher3

    kingfisher3 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    jeff harding is the only answer i got but i forgot my boxrec password so i can't check if even this is accurate, let alone first.
     
    kingfisher3, May 21, 2015
    kingfisher3, May 21, 2015
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  9. LouisA

    LouisA Active Member Full Member

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    A lot of light heavys tried their luck with the big boys, but I think there is a big difference between a guy like Tunney, who used the light heavyweight title as a stepping stone to get a shot at the heavyweight title and a guy like Bob Foster who was a carreer light heavy. Im not sure but I get the feeling that back in Tunney's day light heavyweights were regarded as small heavys (hence the name I guess) and the champ there was expected to move up and challange the heavyweight champ. I don't know when this changed, but it must have been gradual.
     
    LouisA, May 21, 2015
    LouisA, May 21, 2015
    #9
  10. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    That depends.

    Joe Choynski won a 20 round decision over Jimmy Ryan on August 18, 1899, in a fight billed as being for the light heavyweight championship.

    Other says the division was created in 1903.

    George Gardner vs Charles Kid McCoy looks to be the first light heavyweight title match. 1903.
     
    Mendoza, May 21, 2015
    Mendoza, May 21, 2015
    #10
  11. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    :good I forgot about him. I thought it might be Matthew Saad Muhammad?
     
    choklab, May 21, 2015
    choklab, May 21, 2015
    #11
  12. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Yes, this is what I am starting to think. It must have been very gradual because so many often fought bigger guys. Bob foster took fights with Terrell and I think Folley. Nobody was LH exclusive for much of LH history. There was either not enough LH to go round and make a REAL division or the title existed before the division itself? Looking back Gunboat Smith considered himself a LH but I don't think there was enough around for him to make a living against and it certainly did not prevent his success fighting heavyweights.
     
    choklab, May 21, 2015
    choklab, May 21, 2015
    #12
  13. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Bob Foster.
     
    The Mongoose, May 21, 2015
    The Mongoose, May 21, 2015
    #13
  14. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No, he weighed more than 160 for some of his fights, as did some of his opponents...
     
    TBooze, May 21, 2015
    TBooze, May 21, 2015
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  15. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Harding weighed more than 175 for fights and less than 168 too.
     
    TBooze, May 21, 2015
    TBooze, May 21, 2015
    #15
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