When did Marciano fall outside the top ten?

Marciano's easily top 10 for me. How could he not be.

 

Placing him outside the top 10 is just plain stupid in my view

 

I'd hate to try defend it.

 

It can't be defended, plain and simple. I mean, we are considering a guy that could chew and spit out ATG HWs being compared to modern day competitors - that's stupid!

There are very few guys that are really top 10 boxers in any weight division. Although "weight" is immensely overrated above 185 pounds or so. Catch my drift? Thank ya

 

Personally i don't think weight over 185 is overrated, but if anyone could overcome it here and there it might be Rocky. I think he'd compete well vs boxers but would be harder pressed vs bigger men like Liston and Foreman say.

Having said this i am just saying on resume and record Rocky has to be well in the top ten. He was never beat, held the title ages, made plenty of defenses etc. His was a dominant reign and demands recognition. Even if one doesn't rate him huge head to head he still has to make the 10 in a blended list IMO.

 

I don't think the list needs to be blended, John. Most huge guys don't move all that fast; and they don't, for the most part, hit as hard as Marciano. Most have what I call "push punches", with little steam behind them.

You make a good point regarding Marciano vs big hitters (again, don't confuse this with size) Rocky MIGHT have a hard time against a Foreman... but it is unwise to compare him with Frazier - Frazier and Rocky just weren't the same in many areas.

Regarding Rocky's reign as champ, it didn't last all that long. He didn't defend his title very many times as a result. The one thing I will agree with is that he dominated his time.... and would have likely dominated other times in HW boxing - for certain the current crop of so-called HWs.

 

I don't compare Frazier and Marciano excepting both were indeed swarmers lets say. They had to come forward, it was integral to their style. As i've said, i don't pick Foreman vs Marciano just because of what he did to Frazier.

A head to head Heavyweight list is where many start to drop Rocky down. Where would you see him on a head to head list of all time?

 

I don't see him outside top ten, I see him on top. Louis is only one who may be better all time

 

If Marciano isn't in your top 10 you need to watch more boxing.

 

Marciano is top 5 in my book. I always pick Ali as #1 but I would not bet against Rock.

Fists of Fury I agree with your, "But like I have always said, you give Marciano the benefits of modern nutrition and pack 20-25 pounds on his frame, and he'd be hell for just about anyone".

These fantasy matchups rarely take into consideration what you are saying here. If guys move around in time capsules guys going into the future are bigger and faster, and guys going into the past are smaller and slower. How much change in size and speed is the unknown part of the experiment.

If Rocky was around today, I think he would be 6'2" 225 lbs of freakin' nightmare.

 

Talking head-to-head, I think a fighter like Rocky Marciano would beat the vast majority of heavyweights who came after him, of whatever size.

His strength, aggression and awkward attack angles would be apparent against far bigger men. He's not gonna lose much effectiveness simply by being out-sized. He's a nightmare to be in the ring with, whether you are small as Tommy Burns or big as Nicolai Valuev.

I actually think Marciano would be better defensively against taller men. His low crouch and lack of height makes him a difficult target for a tall range fighter to tag cleanly. Couple that with his tendency to throw unorthodox punches from unusual angles out of the crounch and he's gonna have success against some very good far bigger men.
Of course, not all of them, some might beat him, figure him out, smother and negate him or perhaps overwhelm him. But those would be FEW and GREAT.

 

Regarding an ATG HW Head to Head comparison, I think Rocky would have the hardest time winning against Lewis, Foreman and Liston... in that order.

 

Toads and women just don't mix... not that this has anything to do with a Classic Boxing forum. Please forgive me

 

JJ wasn't bad, but I tend to think Marciano would beat him rather easily.