When did Pac reach the HOF/ATG status?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Thinman, Sep 16, 2007.


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  1. Thinman

    Thinman Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Is it possible to determine now when he actually did it? Boxers are eligible (if they qualify) for the HOF after 5 years of their retirement. After that, historians and/or the so called experts might include them in their ATG list, which I consider very subjective.

    So let's see if we can determine when Pac reached each status. Let's assume for a moment that Pac is retired, or let's retire him for a moment and go back in time to that particular time when he achieved that.

    Below are different stages (point in times of his career) of retirement which we can consider for this purpose. Please pick the stages of retirement that you consider the most appropriates according to your own judgment, in which Pac achieved said status. If you think that he hasn't achieved one of those status or the two of them, then state that. You might have to select one stage for HOF and one for ATG

    If he had retired.......

    1- After his fight against Lucero ***** 37W – 1D – 2L******
    WBC flyweight title (112) - Lost title in his second defense.
    IBF super bantamweight title (122) – Defended title 4 times.
    Combined records of opponents at the present before winning his first world title
    Totals = 24 fights / Records = 222 W - 144 L – 37 D

    2- After his fight against MAB (126) *** 38W – 1D – 2L ***
    Pac defeated MAB by TKO in 11

    3- After his fight against JMM (126) *** 38W – 2D – 2L ***
    Fight was declared a draw.

    4- After his fight against 3K Battery (130) *** 39W – 2D – 2L ***
    Pac defeated 3K Battery by TKO in 4

    5- After his second fight against EM (130) *** 41W – 2D – 3L ***
    Pac lost the first fight by UD, this time he won by TKO in 10
    (EM 3-time division champion)

    6- After his third fight against EM (130) *** 43W – 2D – 3L ***
    Pac wins the trilogy winning this time by KO in 3

    7- After his fight against Solis (130) *** 44W – 2D – 3L ***
    Pac defeated Solis by KO in 8

    I have only detailed the basics. I do understand that always is better to determine this when the boxer has been retired for at least 5 years, because many things can happen in the future, boxers he faced in the past and are still active are very important, and that might change his status (position) as an ATG, if you think he deserves a spot of course. However, we are considering that he is already retired and the most important boxers he has faced are pretty much at the end of their career as well, so let's give it a try.

    Please feel free to expand at any particular stage, but please state when he did accomplish each status and explain why, also give it a try with the position you think he deserves as an ATG only if you think that he should be considered as such.

    Now let's go back to reality and think of what could happen in his future. He's fighting MAB next and after that he could fight Marques, Guzman, Valero and Soto. If he wins those fights he will gain/consolidate his legacy but if he loses those 4 fights would you still consider him ATG/HOF? Which of those four fights you think he should win to keep himself as an ATG/HOF candidate?
     
    Thinman, Sep 16, 2007
    Thinman, Sep 16, 2007
    #1
  2. GazOC

    GazOC Guest Star for Team Taff Full Member

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    :good
     
    GazOC, Sep 16, 2007
    GazOC, Sep 16, 2007
    #2
  3. brooklyn1550

    brooklyn1550 Roberto Duran Full Member

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    I agree, Pacquiao is a Hall of Famer, but in my criteria of ATG, he has not yet reached it. I think he became worthy of HOF status after he stopped Erik Morales in the 2nd fight.

    Should he beat Marco Antonio Barrera and Juan Manuel Marquez, he would most certainly be an ATG, and wins over Guzman/Soto, Valero, and Linares would further than claim. If he beat Barrera and Marquez and became an ATG in my book, but ended up losing to Guzman/Soto and Valero, he would still be an ATG, but just not to the extent he would be if he beat them.
     
    brooklyn1550, Sep 16, 2007
    brooklyn1550, Sep 16, 2007
    #3
  4. Amsterdam

    Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

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    Jan 16, 2005
    He'd annihilate Soto. Soto is solid, but he's very overrated. Guzman will annihilate Soto in fact.

    I think JMM will lose to Pac this time around, it would be a good mark on Pac's resume, I say this also as a long time fan of JMM. JMM is just slipping too much to beat Pac at this point.

    Guzman/Pac is the most competitive IMO. Barrera will be blown out, it's a worthless fight.

    I think Pac would be successful against Guzman, I say this as a big Guzman fan also.:lol:

    I'm just happy to watch a fighter of Pac's calibre in this era.:good
     
    Amsterdam, Sep 16, 2007
    Amsterdam, Sep 16, 2007
    #4
  5. achillesthegreat

    achillesthegreat FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE Full Member

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    I believe his Morales wins sealed the deal. His MAB win could simply be a fluke, a one off etc His fight with JMM was 50-50 and JMM wasn't great at that point. Now JMM has shown he is great (beat MAB) and PAC showed he can continously hang with and beat great fighters (JMM, Morales and MAB).
     
    achillesthegreat, Sep 16, 2007
    achillesthegreat, Sep 16, 2007
    #5
  6. brooklyn1550

    brooklyn1550 Roberto Duran Full Member

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    Agreed....JMM is still an elite fighter who can give real problems to anybody and has the potential to beat anybody from 126-130, but I think he has lost a step and will be pushed too far by Pacman at this stage.
     
    brooklyn1550, Sep 16, 2007
    brooklyn1550, Sep 16, 2007
    #6
  7. Illmatic

    Illmatic Boxing Addict Full Member

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    HOF- after beating MAB
    ATG- after beating morales
     
    Illmatic, Sep 16, 2007
    Illmatic, Sep 16, 2007
    #7
  8. Morrissey

    Morrissey Underrated Full Member

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    Are you sure you are not overestimating Pac here?

    I am a big Pac fan but I do feel Guzman's chin and skills could be enough to offset Pac's power.

    I agree withh most of your assesment though.
     
    Morrissey, Sep 16, 2007
    Morrissey, Sep 16, 2007
    #8
  9. reed_man02

    reed_man02 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Wow, is that all it takes to become an atg?
     
    reed_man02, Sep 16, 2007
    reed_man02, Sep 16, 2007
    #9
  10. Illmatic

    Illmatic Boxing Addict Full Member

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    beating other all time greats? Yeah...im sorry it seems so easy.
     
    Illmatic, Sep 16, 2007
    Illmatic, Sep 16, 2007
    #10
  11. Toopretty

    Toopretty Custom made Full Member

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    I hope you are not serious.....................Pac is the truth. The thing with him that impresses me most is that he actually gets better. First Pac was a little ball of aggression and a mean left. Now he has way more skill and he would beat JMM now b/c when they fought Pac didnt have the boxing skills he has now. He will be on my mind years from now and he damned for sure is one of the best to watch. :yep
     
    Toopretty, Sep 16, 2007
    Toopretty, Sep 16, 2007
    #11
  12. reed_man02

    reed_man02 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He has never dominated any or at least been the consensus man at any division. The closest hes been is 130 but even there JMM has a claim to that as well. He didnt even try to unify at 122 or 112. He beat a great in MAB and a faded one in EM but thats about it. I dunno, but he needs some more solid vicotries to put him at atg status.
     
    reed_man02, Sep 16, 2007
    reed_man02, Sep 16, 2007
    #12
  13. Toopretty

    Toopretty Custom made Full Member

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    You must be mexican..or possibly need counseling. Pac has guys he needs to fight...but odds are ...he beats them. Nobody really looks better or more dominant then him. I doubt any of the other guys except JMM who is now aging is TRULY on his level. You can say Soto or Guzman whatever..they are just guys he has not fought that are good. Pac is a great fighter. He didnt just beat ATG SKILLED boxers like Barrera and Morales. He brutalized them.
     
    Toopretty, Sep 16, 2007
    Toopretty, Sep 16, 2007
    #13
  14. chimba

    chimba Off the Somali Coast Full Member

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    Still Top 50 ATG...but anything further ? NO
     
    chimba, Sep 16, 2007
    chimba, Sep 16, 2007
    #14
  15. chimba

    chimba Off the Somali Coast Full Member

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    You speak the truth..You're unpredictable but you speak truth:good
     
    chimba, Sep 16, 2007
    chimba, Sep 16, 2007
    #15
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