When exactly was Tyson's prime?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Saintpat, Jul 27, 2009.

  1. Muchmoore

    Muchmoore Guest

    I don't really understand what you mean by that, but as for the question itself I think Tyson was at his absolute peak from his beatdown of Tyrell Biggs to his demolition job of Spinks. Obviously when he fought Berbick, Thomas etc. he was pretty much the finished product but the Tyson of those fights didn't have the experience and the little bit extra teaching from Rooney. He was a bit more sloppy prior to Biggs.

    For his best fight, Tyson never looked better than against Holmes, imo. His biggest flaw was his tendency to get tied up where he would usually stop action and wait to get broken up. Against Larry though he was active on the inside and punished him when he was tied up and bombed out one of the hardest fighters to knock out ever. Obviously the Spinks fight is incredible but it was so decisive it's hard to really get much from it other than that he's one of the most explosive HWs ever.
     
  2. Jazzo

    Jazzo Non-Facebook Fag Full Member

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    I am of the philosophy that training, including maintenance is just as important as the fight itself. I commonly like to point this out.

    Furthermore, the ability to work hard consistently over a long period of time is a talent in itself.

    Thus, Tyson was certainly in his absolute Prime before Prison. The fact that he lost does not remove him from his Prime.

    His problems are for his social worker, psychologist or psychiatrist. Maybe all three.

    But not me.
     
  3. Thread Stealer

    Thread Stealer Loyal Member Full Member

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    Tyson was only carefully matched on the road to the title. The management did a good job of selecting the right opponents on the way up to help Tyson improve, but not enough to seriously challenge him.

    Once Tyson won a title though, he basically cleaned out the division except for Spoon, and Tyson beat Spoon's conqueror.
     
  4. Jazzo

    Jazzo Non-Facebook Fag Full Member

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    Why is Spinks being scared an issue, by the way?
     
  5. Thread Stealer

    Thread Stealer Loyal Member Full Member

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    I guess it's supposed to take away from the win.

    If a fighter uses whatever he has to gain a psychological edge due to the opponent being scared, intimidated, angry, insecure, etc...well good for him.
     
  6. Jazzo

    Jazzo Non-Facebook Fag Full Member

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    Bingo.

    Besides, how do you measure how "scared" somebody is?

    Someone can look cool but be a nervous wreck and bottle job.
     
  7. Bill Butcher

    Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

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  8. lefthook31

    lefthook31 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    What facts do you have that a guy making 20 million and considered the lineal heavyweight champion was scared shitless? He gave it go. To me Bruce Seldon showed all the signs of being scared shitless, leading up to and including the fight, but I didnt see that in Spinks. He was knocked cold and his eyes rolled back in his head like a slot machine.
     
  9. lefthook31

    lefthook31 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Well I think every fighter should be carefully matched to secure their record, ranking and build their confidence, all the while offering them different looks and styles to improve. Tyson was brought along just right by his handlers and your right he cleaned out the division.
     
  10. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  11. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    Maybe you should get new glasses, I don't know what to tell you. He looks in complete fear. He's so frigid and stiff and his eyes spell doom. It's a great win for Tyson regardless.
     
  12. Jazzo

    Jazzo Non-Facebook Fag Full Member

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    You are making a worthless, irrelevant argument relevant by arguing it.

    **** it.

    It's boxing.
     
  13. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I was at the Spinks fight. I believe he was scared to death. There are replays (or were on HBO) that showed some different angles in the opening seconds. Tyson misses a looping right while Spinks is on the ropes and you can see Spinks' eyes roll when his head comes up (his back is to you on the youtube version).

    A few seconds later he has slid past the corner and is still on the ropes and Tyson lands a short head shot and a body shot and Spinks takes a knee.

    Now pause and think -- ever heard of a champion taking a knee in the first round of a heavyweight title fight to get his bearings? It wasn't because he was out on his feet -- it was because he was overwhelmed.

    All credit to Tyson for creating that circumstance -- Spinks was afraid because he saw he couldn't cope with Tyson's speed and raw power.

    As for Tyson being carefully matched -- he could have gone after Witherspoon or Spinks when he first fought for the title, but instead took on Berbick, who was (rightfully) regarded as the least of the three.

    Not saying I blame Team Tyson, but that's the fact.

    He didn't fight Witherspoon. He didn't fight Holyfield, who was No. 2 in the Ring Magazine ratings at heavy by 1987, during that period. He didn't fight Dokes, who was still regarded as a top-five heavy through much of that period.

    Tyson also fought Biggs when Biggs had 15 fights. I personally don't think Biggs would have developed into a great fighter, but I remember conventional wisdom at the time being Tyson's camp chose to go after him then rather than wait until he might be more ready.

    Two other guys who Tyson did fight but waited to fight were Donovan Ruddock and Buster Douglas, who made a real case for himself on the Tyson-Spinks undercard picking apart Mike Williams.

    Tyson also never fought Foreman, who become viable during the course of Tyson's 'prime.'

    I'm not saying Tyson avoided all competition like the plague (a la Cooney), but his management made some intelligent choices about who to fight and when to fight them -- it's not a coincidence that they jumped on Bonecrusher as soon as he beat Witherspoon, but had no interest in that unification when Witherspoon still held that belt because 'Spoon was regarded as more dangerous.
     
  14. My2Sense

    My2Sense Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Exactly.
     
  15. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    If Tyson's prime carried through 1991, you'd have to add Michael Moorer and Riddick Bowe as guys he didn't fight -- and probably a few others.