When exactly was Tyson's prime?

Agree, except I wouldn't include 91.

 

You could add them, but it won't hold any merit.

Razor Ruddock was more established at heavyweight by the time 1991 came around than Moorer and the green Bowe. There were rumors that Tyson was unhappy with King for how long it was taking him to get a chance to regain his title. Ruddock was supposed to fight Tyson a couple years earlier but Tyson pulled out. Ruddock was more worthy of a big fight at that time than Moorer or Bowe. Moorer hadn't even fought at heavyweight when Tyson faced off with Ruddock the first time.

Then after the Ruddock fights, Tyson signed to fight Holyfield for the title before his "rib injury", which may have meant "not ready to fight due to upcoming **** trial".

When Tyson and Bowe had the most realistic chance of fighting, it was around 1996. But Tyson lost to Holyfield in between the two fights in which Bowe's head and balls were used by Andrew Golota as a punching bag.

 

I'd say his best performance, considering the opponent, was against Tyrell Biggs. It's easy to forget just how good Biggs was in 1987 and he was the kind of boxer that, if the Tyson-haters were to be believed, Mike couldn't beat: a tall strong boxer with a great left jab and who wasn't afraid to fight back against Tyson.

That night Tyson looked as fast, as focused, as systematic, as powerful and as durable as he ever did. It was bang in the middle of his reign of terror, before Bruno showed some of the *****s in his armour and before Douglas took some of the shine off of the Tyson idol.

 

As for Tyson being "carefully managed", if that's careful management then Ali and Louis were wrapped in bubble wrap. Tyson was thrown in with the wolves early and cleaned out his division within three years of being champ, so that by the start of 1990 the only boxer out there who was thought to be a challenge was Evander Holyfied who had made his name at cruiserweight.

The only boxers Tyson was kept away from/avoided were Tim Witherspoon and George Foreman, neither of which could be considered major omissions like Lewis for Bowe or Willis for Dempsey. From 1986-2002, Tyson fought three ATGs, over 11 belt-holders and a series of very strong contenders like Razor Ruddock and Andrew Golota who could have won a title had they been matched more easily or were sane, respectively.

I think Tyson was well-managed in his first career and in his second career was a victim of cheque-book management: King underestimated Holyfield and put Tyson in there after Tyson had had under 8 rounds of boxing since 1991. A big mistake.

 

86-89. Was outside of the Douglas loss the best heavyweight in the world up till 91 when sent to prison, but he was past his best by than.

 

You're guilty of a fair degree of revisionism here.

First of all, Spinks pulled out of the tournament, so thereby disqualifying him as a Tyson opponent. What was Tyson supposed to do?

Tyson was on a collision course with the belt holders regardless of who they were. If Berbick was the number one choice, so be it. Witherspoon, had he won against Smith, could have been next, or a Tyson opponent soon enough. Again, it was Spoon who fell off the wagon, so how is Tyson to blame here?

Dokes was coming back after a long layoff. I heard no noise whatsoever from anyone regarding him fighting Tyson. If Tyson had fought him during this period, no doubt now people would be saying things like "Yeah, but Dokes was a shell, a coke fiend, he had a long layoff..." etc.

Regarding Biggs, well I've always had the belief (supported by magazine interviews) that it was Bigg's people (the Duvas) who decided it was time for Tyrell to take on Tyson.
I don't see how waiting another two years or so would have made the slightest bit of difference anyway.
In that time, it's not likely Biggs would have been risked against a fellow contender, nor would he have acquired a great deal more experience. How much more prepared could he really have been?

The Ruddock fight could have been made in '89, but Tyson pulled out. Regardless, he did fight him twice afterward, when there was no particular reason to do so.
Douglas in must be remembered fell off the wagon in June of '87 when Tucker beat him. Tyson then fought Tucker. Douglas needed to re-establish himself as a worthwhile conender. He fought Williams in June of '88, and in Feb. 1990 he got a shot versus Tyson. It's not like he had to wait years and years...besides, Douglas wasn't touted as anyone to worry about.

Foreman only really became a viable Tyson opponent in Janurary of 1990 when he beat Cooney. That's when most people started to take George seriously. The next month, Tyson lost to Douglas. Where's the problem here??

That leaves Holyfield, who was establishing himself as a worthy contender. Had Tyson's camp moved for a fight after say, the Holyfield v Thomas fight, I wonder whether Holyfield's camp would have taken it, since Evander was still testing the waters at the weight.
The fact that Tyson allowed Holyfield to gather experience and become more comfortable at heavyweight shows Tyson's confidence, if anything.

You bemoan Tyson for fighting Biggs when Biggs had less than 20 fights, then you bemoan Tyson for taking his time about fighting certain guys. You can't have it both ways.

Had he jumped on Foreman when George was just coming back, or on Holyfield just after Holyfield had just jumped to heavyweight, people would moan about how he fought fighters than weren't ready.

Thank God he actually fought and crushed Spinks, because I can already hear how that one would play out had he not.

He ducked the lineal champ, he ducked the one guy who would have beaten him, Spinks had all the tools to school Tyson...yada yada.

It makes me sick..

 

'86-'88.

 

I would argue with Dokes that, really, the Holyfield fight could be viewed as a bit of an abberration. Dokes having a surprisingly good night and Holyfield perhaps fighting with heart instead of head.

His comeback was from Dec 87 onwards. He bowls over a series of journeymen and no-hopers. His last fight before Holyfield was a UD12 over Rocky Sekorski, in what I believe was a pretty awful fight. Then suddenly has that FOTY candidate with Holyfield.

Goes back to the lower leagues again to rack up a few more wins, then gets knocked out cold by Ruddock in 1990. Returns to the tomato can express to get a gift title shot against Bowe in 1993 which he again loses.

It's basically all about the Holyfield fight. That and being able to defeat guys like Jesse Ferguson, Lionel Washington and a bunch of low-level fighters.

So any hype for Tyson vs Dokes? I really doubt it. Dokes would've been viewed as an easy touch anytime up to 1989, and then returned to that status the following year anyway.

 

Correct.
But since Tyson didn't fight him, Dokes has been magically transformed into a 'threat.'

 

Someone actually took this question seriously one time and tried to come up with an exact date that Tyson was at his peak, taking into consideration amount of fights, age, physiology, mentality etc.

The date they came up with was September 17, 1987.

 

This whole thread is horrible sorry. It was a nasty uppercut and bodyshot that dropped Spinks to his knees. Now consider this, a guy who is scared to death doesnt try and fight Tyson like Spinks did. Hes trying to avoid getting his eyes rolled back in his head and Tyson knocked him unconscious.

 

While I don't think that Michael Spinks was going to beat Tyson no matter what his attitude was going into the fight, I agree with all who say that he had cold feet.

Spinks was clearly intimidated, and it showed in his face during the walk to the ring. He seemed cold from the opening bell as well. There was almost no display of enthusiasm or tenacity especially for a man entering what was by far and above the biggest legacy fight of his career, and one that had all the hype of Ali - Frazier, Holmes - Cooney, Jeffries - Johnson, etc... In fact, at times over the years I sometimes wondered if he just said " **** it ", and layed down.

 

Agreed mate,

Had Tyson retired in 1988 after beating Spinks, there isn't a single thing that anybody could have said against him. The heavyweight division was as good as flattened. Period...