When great punching meets tactical genius - McLarnin KO1 Young Corbett III

McGrain · Jul 11, 2009

Sweet Pea said: ↑

If we rate Greb so highly based on resume, and a few other fighters, then why not McLarnin? He started off a young, 15 year old Flyweight, winning twice and drawing to a young (19 year old) Fidel LaBarba, beating Pancho Villa just before he died, a young Jackie Fields, and taking one of three from the much more experienced, and very underrated Bantamweight champion Bud Taylor.
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First of all, let me say that I love McLarnin so this is no hatchet job. But.

McLarnin was young when he took on Fidel, but so was Fidel. Was Fidel not turning pro? Jimmy beat Fidel something like 2 out of his first 5 fights. So, okay, But.

Villa was in really bad shape for the McLarnin fight i think. There IS evidence to the contrary, but the weight of it seems to have Villa struggling with infection, and he had undeniably had one or two teeth removed the day before.

Fields and Taylor are good wins :good

After dropping a 15 round decision to top Lightweight of the era Sammy Mandell (whom he'd later beat in two rematches), he came back with a KO win over another top contender of the era in Stanislaus Loayza. Then came one of his biggest setbacks, when he took a thumping from another very good fighter in Ray Miller. But once again, he rebounded with two victories over Joe Glick and a rematch with Miller, which he won by decision. Never taking a break, he beat the aforementioned Mandell in two rematches, Al Singer, Ruby Goldstein, Sergeant Sammy Baker, and Young Jack Thompson before losing in a huge upset to the Cinderella Man of the division Billy Petrolle. Again, McLarnin bested Petrolle in multiple rematches.
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This is the meat of the case IMO. Top 15 may be a stetch, and the Miller loss does disturb me. Miller was a good bit smaller and not in Jimmy's class as a fighter, but McLarnin was thrashed, hammered unrecognisable.

Great, great wins here though.

After losing a split decision to yet another top fighter of the era in Lou Brouillard, he retired Benny Leonard, blasted Sammy Fuller, and blitzed Corbett. Now toward the end of his obviously very taxing career, he split fights with prime versions of Barney Ross and Tony Canzoneri, before beating a prime Lou Ambers in the last fight of his career.

Honestly, how many fighters can claim to be more truly proven than that? His credentials are astounding.
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I'd add that despite dropping the series to Ross those two were basically not seperated by that series. All three decisions were hotly disputed.

But McLarnin didn't beat prime Canzoneri. McLarnin's losing effort against Canzoneri may be what derailed him, but he lost and had nearly fifty stitches in his ****ing nose before McLarnin got back to him....still, a good win, Ambers too.

teeto · Jul 11, 2009

GPater11093 said: ↑

your realy trying to get everyone to go on your whittaker thread, you on commision in it.

the Pernelll thread is amazing
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The way it turned out post for post bar one guy towards the end is brilliant isn't it?

teeto · Jul 11, 2009

McGrain said: ↑

First of all, let me say that I love McLarnin so this is no hatchet job. But.

McLarnin was young when he took on Fidel, but so was Fidel. Was Fidel not turning pro? Jimmy beat Fidel something like 2 out of his first 5 fights. So, okay, But.

Villa was in really bad shape for the McLarnin fight i think. There IS evidence to the contrary, but the weight of it seems to have Villa struggling with infection, and he had undeniably had one or two teeth removed the day before.

Fields and Taylor are good wins :good

This is the meat of the case IMO. Top 15 may be a stetch, and the Miller loss does disturb me. Miller was a good bit smaller and not in Jimmy's class as a fighter, but McLarnin was thrashed, hammered unrecognisable.

Great, great wins here though.

I'd add that despite dropping the series to Ross those two were basically not seperated by that series. All three decisions were hotly disputed.

But McLarnin didn't beat prime Canzoneri. McLarnin's losing effort against Canzoneri may be what derailed him, but he lost and had nearly fifty stitches in his ****ing nose before McLarnin got back to him....still, a good win, Ambers too.
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Good case for the top fifteen thing McGrain, The Ross-McLarnin trilogy is one of the greatest trilogies of all-time bar none.

Dempsey1238 · Jul 11, 2009

I though Ross should have goting a wider points win over McLarin in fight III. Not sure how the judges had it so close.

McGrain · Jul 11, 2009

Dempsey1238 said: ↑

I though Ross should have goting a wider points win over McLarin in fight III. Not sure how the judges had it so close.
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Whichever fight you are interested in you can find guys who think it should have gone one way or the other. McLarnin felt sure he won the third one.

GPater11093 · Jul 11, 2009

teeto said: ↑

The way it turned out post for post bar one guy towards the end is brilliant isn't it?
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yep its like one of Pernell Whittakers virtuso performances of Classic forum members using all their skills and knowledge to produce a work of art.

teeto said: ↑

Good case for the top fifteen thing McGrain, The Ross-McLarnin trilogy is one of the greatest trilogies of all-time bar none.
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the skill level and intensity is amazing from what i have seen. Better than Gatti vs Ward anyday

teeto · Jul 11, 2009

McGrain said: ↑

Whichever fight you are interested in you can find guys who think it should have gone one way or the other. McLarnin felt sure he won the third one.
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Not for me though, i had a clear decision for Ross, one of my fave fights ever though.

teeto · Jul 11, 2009

GPater11093 said: ↑

yep its like one of Pernell Whittakers virtuso performances of Classic forum members using all their skills and knowledge to produce a work of art.

the skill level and intensity is amazing from what i have seen. Better than Gatti vs Ward anyday
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Haha, yeah i agree.

McGrain · Jul 11, 2009

teeto said: ↑

Not for me though, i had a clear decision for Ross, one of my fave fights ever though.
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Got your card laying about, no?

GPater11093 · Jul 11, 2009

teeto said: ↑

Haha, yeah i agree.
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about everything i said there or what paragraph

McGrain said: ↑

Got your card laying about, no?
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i have only seen highlights of 2 and 3 but ill seek out 3

teeto · Jul 11, 2009

McGrain said: ↑

Got your card laying about, no?
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Nar it's been a long time, i got a good memory though, if i remember i read before the fight that most observers felt it came down to the last round and though they felt McLarnin took, Ross won. But i remember thinking Ross won the last round. It's been a long time, but i'll dig it out and watch it for you and get back to you today then.

I'm going to watch Hangover first though.

teeto · Jul 11, 2009

GPater11093 said: ↑

about everything i said there or what paragraph

i have only seen highlights of 2 and 3 but ill seek out 3
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All of it, there's no question about the last part.

McGrain · Jul 11, 2009

No rush

GPater11093 · Jul 11, 2009

teeto said: ↑

Nar it's been a long time, i got a good memory though, if i remember i read before the fight that most observers felt it came down to the last round and though they felt McLarnin took, Ross won. But i remember thinking Ross won the last round. It's been a long time, but i'll dig it out and watch it for you and get back to you today then.

I'm going to watch Hangover first though.
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tell me if its any good, i might watch it

mcvey · Jul 11, 2009

McGrain said: ↑

Jimmy McLarnin was the biggest draw in boxing between Dempsey and Louis but it was 60 plus fights before he landed a title shot, due in part to his paranoid (if brilliant) manager's determination to keep him out of the hands of the mob (And anyone else) and partly because Jimmy fought for maximum bank, and the champ didn't always represent maximum bank. And when he did finally beat a champion who had a title (as opposed to the 11 champions who had dropped or were yet to aquire one) you can understand his wanting to be thorough about it, but I still think McLarnin KO1 Corbett III is one of the best - and now underated - results in boxing history.

Corbett was stopped 4 times in a career that spanned 158 fights. Two of those stoppage losses were in his first four fights. The final one came when he was taking a stab at the MW title of the world, Apostoli stopping him in 8. The other stoppage was in his absolute prime at his prime weight, he was stopped by Jimmy McLarnin in a single round.

Corbett is an underated fighter. After losing to McLarnin, he would go on to beat Apolstini - right before he lifted the title - Billy Conn, a LHW Gus Lesnenivh and Mickey Walker (just coming off a victory over Rosenbloom). Before he met McLarnin, he's got a who's who of champions, almost always in non-title fights boys like Fields and Thompson as well as guys like Joe Glick and Ceferon Garcia. He was lethal.

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Looks hard, doesn't he? Well he was, and in his first defence, he took on McLarnin who was possibly just past his very best, but was still a feared puncher and a man to be avoided. Not Corbett.

Pop Foster and Jimmy McLarnin had only met one southpaw before and been beaten, so Foster, who worked on all facets of Jimmy's career threw together a plan to bring the title to his fighter. Instead of circling left he would come in straight, and when he needed an angle to circle to the right, instead - basically it reads like they were trying to reverse the traditional advantage a southpaw carries by distorting the other fighter's mirror. Also, I think they might have recognised that although he was big and strong, Corbett was only a good puncher (21% ko rate) and that it would take more to stop McLarnin, whilst McLarnin himself hit hard enough to stop anyone he could really open up on (he hadn't run into Canzoneri yet) so they wanted to take the chance and make it rough.

The second part of the plan stemmed from the fact that Pop Foster had seen Corbett lift the title from Jackie Fields spotting that Corbett dropped his right when he threw a left to the body. So as well as all this counter-intuitive footwork, he was going to send his boy into the ring with his hands misplaced, carrying them "a little high".

All of this worked like a charm. Corbett came out aggressive (like they knew he would) reacted with Jimmy's straight ahead footwork with violence (like they knew he would) threw a left to Jimmy's open body (like they knew he would) at which point McLarnin countered with a left to Corbett's jaw (like they knew he would).

Corbett dropped like a stone.

This was, accoridng to Andrew Gallimore in "The Jimmy McLarnin Story", 'the first time Corbett had ever visited the canvas'. As would be the case when Apolstoli beat him, bouncing him of the canvas repeatedly, Corbett was back up and ready to fight, but as a contest it was already over, with that single punch. McLarnin begged referee George Blake to stop the fight before administiring the punch that forced him to do so in 2 minutes and 37 seconds of the first round.

The New York American named McLarnin the "greatest fighter of modern times".

The New York Times: "The most spectacular upset the welterweight division has known in some years."

Ring: "Corbett's helplessness was pitiful...[but] he supplied a splendid exhibition of gameness."

Wish we had film of this one.

Incidently, James J Jeffries was ringside for this one writing an article on the fight for "a Los Angeles Newspaper". I would LOVE to know what he made of such a display...anyone got any idea which paper he had been writing for?
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Foster was a great manager ,he adopted Mclarnin and left his estate to him when he died.

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When great punching meets tactical genius - McLarnin KO1 Young Corbett III

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When great punching meets tactical genius - McLarnin KO1 Young Corbett III

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