When is a fighter truly "shot"?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Tolstoy, Mar 16, 2009.

  1. Chert

    Chert Ringside Potato Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,863
    Likes Received:
    1
    odlh was probably more weight-drained than shot vs. pac. the golden boy has no one to blame but his team for that. they clearly had the wrong weight strategy in making weight @147. they made 147 too early with still 1 month to go before the fight. they should've tried as late as possible to make 147 instead just like what other fighters normally do. as a result, they virtually shrunk odlh from a natural 154-lber to a very small 147-lber for the fight.

    pac just fights the guy in front of him. you can't blame him for a mistake that the other team did to themselves.
     
  2. See Me Flow

    See Me Flow The Pharaoh of Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2004
    Messages:
    6,482
    Likes Received:
    2
  3. Slider75

    Slider75 Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    4,113
    Likes Received:
    3
    Sometimes sounds that way when a european fighter beats an american fighter!
















    Sorry, couldn`t help it... just the first thought in my head:lol:
     
  4. See Me Flow

    See Me Flow The Pharaoh of Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2004
    Messages:
    6,482
    Likes Received:
    2
  5. yesihavearm2

    yesihavearm2 ESB Chinchecker Full Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    9,890
    Likes Received:
    5,155
    A bit off-topic no ?
     
  6. somerset

    somerset Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    1,254
    Likes Received:
    4
    [yt]3bNNZaa4h_Q[/yt]
     
  7. Tuno

    Tuno Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2009
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    0
    Whenever an ATG fights Manny P., although this does not apply to the fighter's future fights.
     
  8. kalunya5964

    kalunya5964 Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    6,263
    Likes Received:
    0
    If the boxer weighed from 126 to 147, aged 29 yrs or above and was about to fight the Pacman, he is totally shot!:patsch
     
  9. Tolstoy

    Tolstoy dead Russian novelist Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    0
    Agreed. Age need not be the determining factor in a fighter's deterioration. We only need to look at JMM at 35 and Shane Mosley at 37 to see two fighters still near the top of their game.

    Ali too had total wars with Frazier and Norton as well as load of tough distance fights that he could have done without. That was a major factor in his deterioration.

    Tyson's the first guy that springs to mind when I think of a guy who could physically still compete at a reasonable level but doesn't have the mind to. I think that with guys with loads of fights on the clock there comes a time when they can't get properly motivated for it anymore. Sure, they'll train and they'll spar as before but they're missing that bit of fire that every champion needs.
     
  10. Tolstoy

    Tolstoy dead Russian novelist Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    0
    Pacman piled on 40 pounds between his debut and his fight with DLH yet, at 30 years old and with 50 odd fights under his belt, he's far from shot.
     
  11. monjay

    monjay Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    644
    Likes Received:
    0
    Originally Posted by kalunya5964
    This content is protected

    If the boxer weighed from 126 to 147, aged 29 yrs or above and was about to fight the Pacman, he is totally shot!:patsch


    Of course He isn't. The boxer that is referred to as totally shot is not the Pacman but his would be opponent.
     
  12. David UK

    David UK Boxing Addict banned

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    5,986
    Likes Received:
    1

    Correct.

    Barrera isn't shot, just past his best.

    Some people are so ******ed. There's a huge list somewhere showing a hundred or so posters who picked Barrera by KO, and now they say 'oh well of course Khan won cos Barrera was shot'
     
  13. El Cepillo

    El Cepillo Baddest Man on the Planet Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Messages:
    17,221
    Likes Received:
    4
    Tyson, yes. Gatti, yes. Oscar, the jury is out, he looked shot, but the weight issues may have been more significant. See how he looks next time out.
     
  14. sir axeman

    sir axeman Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2007
    Messages:
    5,307
    Likes Received:
    159
    When a fighter heart is no longer in it they are shot by default. Mike Tysons last few fights demonstrated that. He even said in his last fight that he didn't have the desire anymore to gut it out...that he no longer had the "fighting guts" and that he'd been that way for some time. He was fighting only for $$$$!!!

    Once that fire/motivation to be supreme has gone its over - no matter how old a fighter is. Also mentally a fighter thats had a couple of beatings or brutal KO's will always have doubts in the back of his mind once he's in a losing fight...once that bubble of invincibility has popped...they are more willing to fold in adversity.
     
  15. homebrand

    homebrand Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    3
    Who's saying MAB was shot on the basis of the Khan fight?

    That's impossible to say, as has been said, the cut was so bad, it wasn't an even fight after the cut. Barrera couldn't see properly.

    I don't think many people, apart from trolls, are going to deny Khan is skillful and extremely quick, a potentially really good boxer.

    The question mark has been his chin, but his skills haven't been questioned too much.

    For sure, at Barrera's stage in his career, MAB would have needed to see properly to avoid Khan's punches and put him under some kind of pressure.


    You can't tell from this fight whether MAB is shot or not. There are very few fighters, if ever, who could have won with that severe a cut received in round 1 of a fight.