When judging who's the greater fighter between two men...

"Head-to-head" determinations are different from "Greater fighter" determinations.

Say fighter A is champion for 8 years. He defeats every style and a legion of great or near-great contenders. His skill is exemplary.

Then fighter B challenges him--- fighter B is a journeyman who lost his last 4 fights. Fighter B stops fighter A late. Is fighter B "greater" -no. He had the style that is the foil for fighter A. Styles make fights.

That scenerio has happened legions of times in boxing with different details.

This should do it: Is Leon Spinks greater than Ali?

 

I think argument RZA's looking for is what if "fighter B" was not a journeyman?

Look at MAB vs Morales

Should Marco come out ahead because he won the series? or Does Erik get the nod?

 

but Bowe's and Holyfields accomplishments are not in the same league.

Therefore:
I have no problem rating Holyfield over Bowe.
Outside of Holyfield two out of three, who did he beat?

Golota I don't count, it just shows what a head case Golota was.

Gonzales and Hide were fair. Donald was a good win, though Donald showed up to lose. Coetzer was a good win too, probably his best outside of Donald and Holy.

Bowe paid off Lewis. He and Tyson didn't want to fight because they were both Brooklyn. Fine. I give him that, esp. with Tyson in jail! But his championship run sucked badly, he was brought up soft, and he didn't even come close to living up to his potential.

Holy beat much better versions of Dokes and Pink. Even though they were older, Foreman and Holmes were legit challangers. Mercer was a better win than anyone else that Bowe beat outside of Holy. Vaughn Bean is just a little under the status of Donald. He beat Moorer in the rematch. Two wins over a still capable Tyson, plus, at 37/38 he did well enough against Lewis.

Holyfield was the only fighter who really had no problems fighting the best fighters of his era. Bowe had the most problems fighting the best fighters of his era.

How can you rank the underachiever ahead of the overachiever?

Bowe is not top 15 heavyweight material of all time.

Unless you have some idea that he might be top 15 head to head which is for the fanboys, anyhow.

 

The two guys you mention aren't top 10 HWs, or even top 15. There have been a lot of HW fighters over the years......

Holyfield wins out of your two based on will more than anyhing else. Both of your two get their heads knocked of by the top 15 of ATG HW greats. Plant both in your top 50 and I'll be happy... and it'll be a more realistic rating for both!

 

Holyfield is definately top 15.

 

Well, well, well. JT was right. You are funny.

 

Barrera was the greater, and the series helps the argument. However you have to acknowledge that styles make fights. That is THE qualifier -prime or no, journeyman or no.

 

Good point, this is 1 of the hardest to call rivalries ever, very close as both were atg`s.

Id go for morales as the superior fighter over barrera.

I personally thought erik had the edge over all 3 fights, not by much but he beat a touch better comp + holds victories over j.jones & pac.

 

He's killer hahaha

 

I believe that FOTC Frazier would have defeated more of history's other greats than peak Foreman. So even if peak Foreman were to beat FOTC Frazier three out of three times (as he actually did pound the post peak version of Smoke), I would still rate Joe as greater by virtue of my belief that he would have prevailed against more greats than George. That Foreman may have simply had Frazier's number stylistically in head to head competition is not my principle criteria in determining an all time evaluation.

 

Same here. I have Bowe rated above Holyfield by a shade. Holy's fans will point out that he fought better fighters, and beat Mike Tyson.

I would counter by saying Bowe holds a clear 2-1 edge over Holyfield, and never lost to the Mike Morrer's, or was down vs the Bert Cooper's of boxing. Holy beat on past their prime guys like Foreman and Holmes. The prime Bowe was more dominant in my opinion. Finally, Bowe only lost once, while Evander has tarnished his legacy with too many defeats.

 

Not necisarily.

The winner might just be a bad stylistic match up for the looser.

 

Holyfield clearly rates ahead of Bowe. There is no reasonable argument for rating Bowe ahead given his lack of accomplishments.