When some people say "Ali is the p4p GOAT", what do you think?

A case could certainly be made for Ali at the #1 spot in terms of all-time greatest across all weights (pound for pound).

I don't have him there, but his achievements and the 'eye-test' put him in the conversation.

Fighters like Pac and Floyd, as well as SRR and SRL, all fought in lower weight classes where it was possible to move up in weight and thus, hold titles (or at least, belts) in multiple divisions. And that's impressive.

But the HW division does not offer that opportunity. Above 175 (nowadays, 200) everybody is in the same division.

My # 1 all-time is SRR.

SRR's fights ranged across seven of todays weight classes , and his weight ranged from 134.5 to 165.5, a range of 31 lbs. His top weight was 23 % over his bottom weight.

Ali's weight ranged from 188 to 236 a range of 48 lbs. His top weight was 25 % over his bottom weight. But all of that was in ONE division.

Ali boxed with the foot speed of a middleweight and was very difficult to hit. By conventional boxing wisdom, he did some things wrong (pulling straight back to avoid shots, etc), but his athleticism was more than enough to compensate for his missing 'fundamentals.'

I have him at number four all-time.
The collective wisdom of the classic section ranked him at six in Rummy's recent survey.

IMO, somewhere in the 4-6 is about right.

But #1 is NOT unreasonable.

 

I can definitely see Ali being #1 p4p.

Nobody, including Robinson, matched his brilliance in the ring imo.

 

What people forget about Ali is that he was BANNED from boxing & even training for 3 1/2 yrs of his absolute prime. Just imagine what he could have done in those years ?
People called him a draft dodger etc & claimed he deserved to be banned & he was a coward BUT Many of those same people voted for a certain William Jefferson Clinton to be President & Commander if Chief of the US forces later.
Old Bill scarpered over to England to avoid Vietnam . His punishment ? He was made president. Why the difference ????
For me personally Ali will always be The Greatest. I may not agree with his religious beliefs but I applaud his standing up for his own. He was no coward he could have done a Clinton if he was. He stayed & faced the music like a MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

The average man on the street only knows names of heavyweights so in that vernacular I guess they're right.

But no, he's not even close to #1.

 

I liked the Sonny Liston quote after their first fight he said
"They told me that boy couldnt punch.. They lied"

 

The GOAT heavyweight probably. Top 10 P4P

 

How was he banned from training ?

 

I'm just sad that no one even misses me when I don't post on this part of the forum. It's like my life doesn't even matter to people here. Like the past decade means nothing and eff my life? Is that it? Eff my life? Huh?

 

I have Ali as the all time number one at Heavyweight but have no issue with people who have Joe Louis there.
Pound for pound definitely top ten. Fighters like Robinson, Greb, Armstrong and Duran can legitimately be ranked above because like Ali they had longevity .
It’s hard to downplay a fighter though who started fighting and beating contenders as a 19 year old, won the world title at 22.
Cleaned out the division was forced to stop fighting for nearly 4 years in his prime years.
Came back past prime and beat everyone there was in arguably the strongest decade in heavyweight history.
He avoided no one in virtually 2 whole decades.
Anyone at any weight has a lot to do to be ranked above that.

 

He has a reasonable rank as a P4P fighter his feats are great that cannot be denied regardless of weight class, I find it amusing how people will rank lesser champions then Ali higher based on nothing over them “P4P duh” when he was one of the greatest regardless of what he weighed.

 

Box

 

While it's not absurd, it is more of a casual stance.

I would bet you that 99% of casuals think Ali, Tyson, and Floyd are the top 3 all time.

Personally, I have Ali #5 all time.

My top 4 are Robinson, Duran, Armstrong, and Leonard.

 

Ali trained during his exile. He came to the Hoover in late 1969 or early 70. He carried a bag in the trunk of his car with his gear in it. Went in and sparred with a couple of Eddie's boxers. A crowd gathered to see him. Then a young unknown kid was up next. Mr. Futch told the c0cky young man not to be a wise guy. Just protect yourself and try to learn something.
Well that is what the kid did. After a minute or so Ali decided the kid can't fight much. Stepped back and announced " Now boy I'm gonna put something on you !!!!" Then Ali opened up on him, hands blazing, the young man was also quick. He countered Ali and embarrassed him. They went at it white hot the rest of the round. Ali got the worst of it.
Next day Muhammad storms in the gym calling out the young boxer who was standing in street clothes. Mr. Futch told him he had the day off. Ali says " ain't your guy working today?" Eddie responded.. " No" Ali "Why not?" Eddie " Yesterday you came in looking for a workout. Today you came in looking for a fight!". When this kid fights you he's gonna get paid and paid well."
That is how Muhammad Ali first became aware of Kenny Norton.

 

The whole p4p things is tricky. If you put big emphasis on moving between weight classes, and in the cases when a fighter just moves up in weight because he no longer can make his previous weight I see no reason at all for this, then Ali's standing suffer, of course. But if you don't, it's a different thing.

To start with he had 30+ wins over top 10 ranked fighters (at the time of the fight). I think Robinson and Armstrong beat this number and there might be others, but there aren't many. He has 22 wins in fights for the undisputed title. Only Louis and, I think, Armstrong beat this. He has 20+ wins over top 5 ranked fighters (at the time of the fight). I don't know if anyone beats this number. He has 5 wins against fighters ranked in or around most's top 10 at at the weight class (SSR might equal this for many and maybe Charles, but not sure anyone else does). He was unbeaten in his prime.

If you put your emphasis on these numbers, he does have a quite decent argument.

 

Oh dear.