When to move on from Journeymen?

The type of journeyman who's been in with the best - I know he's an obvious one but Peter Buckley springs to mind - is worth his weight in gold to a young prospect. However, there are too many who enter the ring with their only aim being to survive until the final bell because they've got another fight booked in a fortnight's time. They'll go four rounds without hardly throwing a punch and their opponent learns nothing that he wouldn't get from a decent sparring session. Too many boxers built up what looks like a good record on paper - ten or twelve straight wins is not uncommon - but every one has been four or 6x2s against opponents who have lost at least 80% of their fights. Then the first time they come up against a live opponent they lose and often drift out of the sport because they can't handle getting beat.

 

It's an issue that needs to be looked at,I notice that some licences have been revoked recently.I have no issue with these guys earning half decent money,fair play to them.
But not only are some of these fights awful,they are not valuable unless like mentioned earlier it was somebody with little amateur experience.
Watching callum smith or kal yafai bludgeon someone's liver while getting nothing back is not for me entertaining.
I think a journeyman should be a win 1 lose 1 type like mcdonagh or max maxwell was couple of years back.
Question is is this thing hurting our boys development and are we the only country that do it like this,after reading billy smiths interview in the ring magazine I think that might be the case.
Sorry but this ain't sport

 

Peter Buckley is a really good exception - he could actually box, i.e. do more than just mess a lad around for 4x3's.

I'd wager that if he'd really put his all in, he could have got well over 50 wins, Tony Booth did.

McDonagh and Maxwell are good journeymen - McDonagh pushed Skeete and Heffron pretty hard and beat Curtis Woodhouse, whereas Maxwell one-shotted Brian Rose pretty brutally.

Those guys ought to be on speed dial, not the ''avoid at all costs'' list. If I was managing a lad who I thought was the real deal I'd stick him in with lads like those. I wouldn't try and steer a lad who I knew wasn't any good around all the competition and say he could be world class, if a kid is area level at best he'll probably know it deep down and appreciate your honesty.

Better trying to guide them to something realistic than seeing them slayed on Sky Sports like Tom Dallas has been.

 

We aren't the only country that does this though surely?

 

The USA do it similarly to us. The Far East and South Americans spend a lot of their early careers more or less boxing tough men with atrocious records in nightclubs.

For me it wouldn't be so much of a problem if they were busier, but Gavin's had 15 fights in 4 years, same as DeGale, Saunders has had 17, Heffron has had 12 in 3 years - 8 against fighters with losing records. These guys should have been knocking off their first 15 pro fights in 12 months especially given the poor average level of their opposition.

Look at Lewis - was 13(12)-0-0 after about 12 months as a pro and won the European title well within 18 months.

After 4 years as a pro (almost to the day) Calzaghe beat Eubank for the world title.

I don't know who is to blame but something is currently not working properly with our system of turning quality amateurs into quality pros.

 

Gavin,degale,Billy Joe will have gone from fighting constantly against the worlds best amateurs to fighting 4 or 6 rounders once every couple of moaths at best
This has to hurt there development.I understand there is a crossover period but this **** ain't good enough
Hearn to be fair is putting his boys out as much as possible but there still horrible contests
Contest really is the wrong word

 

There are different types of Journeymen, those lads who have lost over 100 fights and turn up for quick paycheck, their the type that young prospects shouldn't be facing past 4 fights. The others who while also having bad looking records but actually come to win and cause the odd upset like Peter McDonagh, I'm alright with Prospects fighting those type of Guys up to 10 fights.

After that they should really be stepped up to at least Domestic contenders.

 

True but, some ****s will never acept they aint good enough!! Too much ego at stake

 

I dont think anybody shoule be fighting journeymen after 5 fights if they are trying to have some sort of career progression. After 5 fights they should be fighting area level guys then moving through the domestic rankings.

Some people say they are the lifeblood of the sport. I dont agree they do a good job in some circumstances BUT giving the promoters top ticket seller a little run around the ring is not saving the show.

They might as well open it up to the crowd.

 

Lets say you are the manager of Anthony Ogogo. He has had a break but in general has spent the past 4 years fighting top level opponents and competing at that level.

Do you put him in with the same level of opposition as Frank Buglioni.

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=587892&cat=boxer

Joe Rea & Ciaran Healy could have been his first 2 fights no problem. Thats who Ogogo should be facing straight away.

 

And ogogo will demolish them as well.
These prospects are talented offensive fighters to be in the position there in.The hardest thing in boxing is taking solid shots,defensive work,being bullied on the ropes by a puncher etc.Basically battling through adversity and fighting lowest rung journeymen is for me pointless
Kell brook learnt more in his fight against carson jones than in all his domestic fights put together and thats cos it was ****ing hard work.
No journeymen means much less shows but much higher standards and thats what we all want

 

when they're ready.

 

couldnt agree more with a lot of the comments nothing worse than the journeyman who just covers up and is used as punchbag for the prospect for a few rounds it surely serves no purpose and are not learning fights in anyway. there has got to be some progression.

why are the foreign ones brought over are they cheaper these are often not even that arsed about survival and will go do down or start sayin they are injured??

 

I get the point you're making but i can't really agree with it. No debutant regardless of how good they were as Ams should fight a guy like McDonagh in their debut. While Theoretically they should have the skills to win its a very uneccesary risk. What if they lose ? it would be disastrous for their career and confidence.

As you know those first 3 or 4 fights are used to adapt to the pro game, Longer rounds, no head gear, emphasis on body punching ect. All beginning pros need those first couple of fights to adapt.