When to quit - Roy Jones- did he always lack Recoup

kmac · May 23, 2011

Longhhorn71 said: ↑

Was Jones "drained" when having to sweat off 20 pounds of muscle did him in........like Toney was drained?

They could have been named Co-Managers of a California "Drainage District".
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toney was a fat ass who couldn't stop eating and that's why he had trouble making weight. jones put on muscle to win a title at heavy and came back down to lh. big difference.

klompton · May 23, 2011

"Too good to be hit in his prime" LOL, you mean to good to be hit by the garbage men, wal mart greeters, mall cops, etc he was fighting for most of his career. Not to mention the fact that his physicality was heightened chemically...

red cobra · May 23, 2011

kmac said: ↑

toney was a fat ass who couldn't stop eating and that's why he had trouble making weight. jones put on muscle to win a title at heavy and came back down to lh. big difference.
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So losing muscle and bulk had an effect on his chin (?)....or was it simply a case of his chin never being any good...just that he was for so long always so fast that no one could actually reach his chin..and when it finally found by Tarver, the truth emerged...and since then he's slowed down so that his chin is just more accessible and the ko losses were inevitable?

zadfrak · May 24, 2011

MagnaNasakki said: ↑

I don't think he always had a poor chin, necessarily, but I do think this goes back to his phenomenal physical talents. His reflexes and speed were so great, as was his confidence and utter lack of tension in the ring, that he was never suprised by shots, and if he was ever hurt badly in his prime(He well could have been), he conned his way out of it easily and the other guy couldn't get him again to puncture that.

He may have never been iron jawed, but a peak Roy is one of the harder fighters in the history of our sport to stop for that reason. It'd be near impossible to clip him with something he didn't pick up on, partially block, or roll with, and if you did and he was still able to stand and move, good luck hitting him again. It'd take a truly great fighter with atleast 8/10 power to do it.

Jones used his boxing radar for incoming punches for defense. So did other guys like Whitaker and Eubank. And Ali. But Jones always had those hands low. He fell in after punching. Brought his hands back low after punching, then he lifted them up. Openings.
When you got past the Eubank radar, he had the whiskers to absorb big shots. Ditto Muhammad. With Whitaker, he could recover quick and was almost impossible to hit with follow up shots.

The thing with guys that use radar as a defense instead of parrying punches or other different defenses is that the radar loses effectiveness through time. But there is nothing secondary. Maybe legs. That's the big flaw with the system. They just don't slip stuff and get hit clean far far more than in previous fights. A deterioration they have to cope with.

Some guys try and develop other things defensively. Jones got by on reflexes. Not studying other fighters and being a student of the highest order to trainers. He did not choose to spend time working on another defense. He just did the same thing the same way. And one of the big cause and effect issues with that radar system is that the guys usually subtract directly from their offense to compensate for loss of effectiveness. So now there is a different tipping point for the scales/or a new push/pull factor.

But the guys with the great radar early in their career do not keep that particular skill for their entire careers. What then?

An example of this is Ali in that Shavers fight. Deteriorating radar. Going into it, nobody thought Earnie had the gastank or defense to go 15 with the guy. Nobody. It was viewed as a soft defense over a 1 dimensional guy whose 1 dimension played into the best whiskers in the sport.Everyone expected Ali to not get hit by a wide arcing right hand of Shavers clean and if Earnie does not stop a guy early, what happens?

But here is Ali getting tagged often by looping shots and getting hurt. And then Ali subtracts from his offense and does not circle and box on the outside and turn Shavers and land combos. Just the way Holmes did a little while later in a lopsided contest. But that loss of radar made Earnie far more effective. It certainly made a guy like Spinks effective and Ali got hit clean in that fight > he did between 72 & 73 added up.

That radar system is absolutely terrific when a guy has reflexes and is youthful. It tends to go towards the other end of the spectrum once age enters into the picture & is compounded if a guy does nothing about it.
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