When was Ali at his h2h peak?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Rakesh, Sep 13, 2021.

  1. White Bomber

    White Bomber Active Member Full Member

    1,257
    751
    Mar 31, 2021
    That's was an uncalled/early stoppage
     
  2. White Bomber

    White Bomber Active Member Full Member

    1,257
    751
    Mar 31, 2021
    Liston was old and unprepared when he faced Ali
     
    Sangria likes this.
  3. White Bomber

    White Bomber Active Member Full Member

    1,257
    751
    Mar 31, 2021
    65 Patterson had an injured back
     
  4. White Bomber

    White Bomber Active Member Full Member

    1,257
    751
    Mar 31, 2021
    That certain HW was pummeled all night long, and went down after a 4-5 punch combo trown by a proper HW size wise
    Ali was sent into dream world by a small HW (who'd be a cruiser now), with a single punch
     
    Sangria likes this.
  5. Rakesh

    Rakesh Member Full Member

    246
    370
    Jul 6, 2021
    You certainly have an excuse for every Ali win don’t you?
     
  6. White Bomber

    White Bomber Active Member Full Member

    1,257
    751
    Mar 31, 2021
    I'm stating facts, not excuses.
    And there are plenty of Ali fights I don't dispute
     
    Sangria and Richard M Murrieta like this.
  7. Bumnard_Hopkins

    Bumnard_Hopkins Burger King banned Full Member

    928
    677
    Jul 13, 2021
    Liston in the first fight had a badly inflamed shoulder.
     
    Sangria and White Bomber like this.
  8. Philly161

    Philly161 "Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless" Full Member

    389
    470
    Oct 25, 2020
    I think the ali that beat liston in Miami, with all the physical skills intact, plus having his mind pumped full of divine destiny for him to be the champ by the nation of Islam, was h2h peak Ali.

    I hear what people are saying about experience and ring IQ in 70s ali, but I think 60s ali seemed plenty relaxed and controlled in there. A lot of 70d ali ring IQ was about stealing rounds and tying up, which he didn't need to so in his prime when he really dazzled.
     
  9. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,302
    5,863
    Mar 23, 2019
    Depends on who you ask. Ali rained over a dozen unanswered shots, at least half a dozen got through. Lyle was knocked across the ring twice.

    I think the slaughter could have conceivably gone on much longer, but why when Lyle wouldn't respond?
     
    Richard M Murrieta likes this.
  10. White Bomber

    White Bomber Active Member Full Member

    1,257
    751
    Mar 31, 2021
    Lyle still had his hands up, let him go down before stopping it.
     
  11. White Bomber

    White Bomber Active Member Full Member

    1,257
    751
    Mar 31, 2021
    He also was older than stated and did not train properly
     
  12. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,302
    5,863
    Mar 23, 2019
    That's how boxers get mentally messed up. The Bowe-Golota fights are examples.

    One thing a ref knows is that when a man has taken over a dozen consecutive shots, nearly half landing on the head and/or body, without retaliating, it's time to close the show. Lyle was staggered across the ring...twice. He wouldn't fire back.

    Sounds like you're espousing cruelty just to prove a point. I've read better arguments from you here.
     
  13. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,302
    5,863
    Mar 23, 2019
    This point does have some grounds.
     
  14. White Bomber

    White Bomber Active Member Full Member

    1,257
    751
    Mar 31, 2021
    But who says he's supposed to fire back ?!
    Perhaps he was waiting for Ali to get tired, or perhaps he was just trying to survive the shots, then regroup.
    I agree with stopping it, but only when boxers can no longer defends themselves and are helpless. If they still hold their hands up, they are not helpless.
     
  15. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,302
    5,863
    Mar 23, 2019
    It's quite possible he was waiting. But he kind of did the same thing against Foreman, eventually he just went down. I really just didn't see much difference when he was in the corner, except Ali might have landed more shots.

    I remember a somewhat similar conundrum happened in Holmes vs. LeDoux. LeDoux had been really hurt earlier and not really mounted much of an offense after that, but still complained he was waiting for Larry to punch himself out.

    Like I said, it's possible that is what Lyle was doing, but to me it didn't look like that at the time of the stoppage. He looked unable to respond, and kept getting hit.
     
    Sangria and White Bomber like this.