When was Ali in his post-exile Peak?

He looked all over the place and flabby, he was very easy to hot, his hand speed had gone into decline.

 

I have to agree Mark, Muhammad Ali horsed around too much, he was writing checks that could not be paid so to speak, his 1967 gifts, stamina, footwork, speed, and timing were long gone. In those days he could afford horseplay, but by 1971 he could not afford to do that against Joe Frazier. There was a reason that Yank Durham did not want Joe in the ring with Ali in 1967.

 

Post Exile? The Foreman fight, IMHO.

 

There are two accounts that I know of that suggest that Ali didn't prepare well enough. Not out of shape as such, but not as prepared as he should have been for such a fight.

The first is from Dundee. He says in his autobiography, I think it was, that Ali was in good shape but too distracted by people around him to get into really top shape.

Then there is an account of how Belinda walked in on Ali being quite distracted, in bed with a prostitute, the night before the fight, I think it was. She was was of course furious with him, but not for cheating but because he was so unprofessional in his preparations.

 

Quarry 2 .. the fact that Ali fought as well as he did in the FOTC is in many ways his greatest fight .. no way he was ready for that Frazier .. the fact he did as well as he did speaks volumes

 

i have to disagree. the first Ali v Frazier fight, that was the night of Joe Frazier's life. Ali was not going to win that night, no matter what because that was Joe's night. If you were to ask Joe Frazier I bet that he would say that the fight lasted about 15 seconds and that he wished that the night would never end, that he felt sharp and invincible. Ali could not have been good enough to win on Joe's night.
The second fight was more attrributable to the decline of Frazier than anything else; he left so much behind in the first fight.

 

Agree that Joe Frazier won that fight fair and square, no doubt. But I read a 1967 article, Yank Durham stated that he did not want Joe in the ring with as he put it, Professor Clay. Yank felt that Clay (Muhammad Ali) was too quick, too experienced. He wanted Joe to gain more experience, which Frazier did. So it is hard to say but Durham did a shrewd thing by letting Ali's exile play out. Either Ali was going to prison because back then, Draft Evasion was a Felony, or he was going to box later, as his skills were going to fade. Either way, it was a great fight but Joe did win it, no disputing that.

 

Your point about Frazier’s decline I agree with absolutely. But I have to respectfully disagree about the first one Grey I think that was not the best effort that could’ve been put forth by Muhammad.

 

I'll chime in with June 1971 through the Foreman fight.

In June of 71 the Supreme Court overturned Ali's draft evasion conviction. Then he fights three times in the back half of the year, including a win over #3 Jimmy Ellis.

In 1972 Ali had six fights, every one against a top 15 contender (except Bob Foster, but of course Foster was Lt. Heavy champ). Quarry and Patterson were top 3.

In 1973 he lost some ground losing to #6 Norton, but still beat #8 Bugner, Norton in the rematch, and Lubbers. He seemed to learn a lesson in losing to Norton because he was so well prepared for Norton II, Frazier II, and Foreman.

There have been a few times where a contender has cleaned up the division before becoming champion - Tyson, Liston, and Louis come to mind - and Ali came pretty close between latter 1971 through 1974, and even into 75 (Lyle, Bugner, Frazier).

 

Ali"s peak was the 3 years while he was wrongly exiled

 

March 22 1967 until Oct 26 1970.

 

Ali looked very sloppy v Ellis, getting caught often.

 

Muhammad's 1970s best was circa 1972-74. When he was in shape and motivated he was still a highly dangerous combatant. Best performances of that period being -

Jerry Quarry II
Ken Norton II
Joe Frazier II
George Foreman

 

I think its from '73-'74. After his loss to Norton, he never came out of shape into a fight. After the Foreman fight in '75 thats where he started to come into the fight out of shape in the mid 220s, which wasn't his prime weight. His post exile prime has to be From Norton II - Foreman imo.