Tbh, I think there's 'quit' in every human being and boxers are probably a breed apart when it comes to ignoring that internal dialogue which pleads 'give up' when circumstances dictate stopping is preferable to carrying on: running, boxing, arguing with the wife. I'm not yet sure whether AJ has more quit in him than the average fighter or it's a product of the privileged network which has been wrapped around him. Fighter's need to keep alive that flame of conflict, even when they have tens of millions in the bank. Joshua not only has the money but the adoration of a nation and a management structure more about growing a product than a career. Losing gave back to Joshua ownership of himself because everything surrounding the person was about dominating... taking over America, the rise of DAZN, the career of Hearn.... Matchroom, sponsors, associates, good causes etc etc. His wins provided the fuel for all this to grow, and barely belonged to him anymore. But the loss does, it's his and the focus is back on him and fighting. Maybe at the heart of the quit was a protest...
I thought Joshua wanted out by the end of the 6th after getting punched to the body. He came out in the 7th and tried to regain control by throwing some of his best shots at Ruiz. He landed some of them and got attacked in return. I think he was broken psychologically after that.
I respect you and your posts. I kinda agree, kinda disagree? I guess my response to this would be with another question: When a fighter has eye contact locked with the ref, clearly knowing the count, starts to stand at the count of 9, 9.5, or 10 then gets upset when it is waved off because he hasn't completely stood by the count of 10... is that them showing heart and legitimately trying to continue? Or is that them, "quitting?" Amir Khan vs. Zab Judah, if I remember correctly. What are your takes in those scenarios? And "quitting" to me, as I've emphasized for years, is not the same as it seems to be for 98% of boxing fans. I must be the crazy one in that I think boxers should "quit" much, much more often than they do. I genuinely believe Joshua made the right choice (well, I guess if you think it was one).
Good point. Yes I see where those actions, while someone wishing to defend them by saying "He didnt quit, he tried to get up." would probably be willfully denying the underlying reality that the fighter 'quit without quitting'. That the fighter used the system to get the ref to call it off while giving himself the wiggle room to protest and say he wanted to continue. I absolutely get that. And while I suppose I can see why people would view that AJ did that here, I still just dont see it that way. I genuinely simply think he was gassed, he thought he was AJ and that he would get the benefit of the doubt from the ref, and he was trying to buy a breather. When you look at AJ's immediate reaction to the stoppage, I understand that people think its fake, I personally dont think it is. And Im a pretty skeptical person, Ive watched it probably a half a dozen times, and I just see a guy whose gassed, who isnt composed because of that fact, and is trying to get a breather. Thats just me though man. And yes I agree with you, I personally dont really care when a fighter quits, within reason (and I think the AJ quit would have been within reason). And I agree I think more of them should do it when needed. I just dont like seeing people labeled quitters and mocked (not by you but by the forum in general) for being a quitter when in reality they didnt really quit (my perception). I know thats just my perspective though. I do get what youre saying and I understand that people think he did a different version of getting up at 10.
basically this. Joshua always had dodgy whiskers, even in the AM's so i think all fans knew it would happen sooner or later. just not to andy ruiz jnr (i do rate ruiz tho, he should have won against parker) i said all along, the UK fans have been screaming for another top heavyweight for years now and we all rode the success while it lasted. AJ will win the rematch though
I agree on pretty much all the points you've made. When he got dropped for the final time and was slumped on his knee. That was the time to quit. Don't rise for the count. He was goosed and was trying everything in his power to delay it to catch a breather. He said yes to continuing and asked, again, for his gumshield rather than obeying the ref. It back fired. Another day it may have worked. It was the right call from the ref but i dont think he quit, had he been given the all clear he would've went back to the middle to have no doubt got dropped again.
Wlad Klitschko, Roy Jones, Naseem Hamed, Felix Trinidad, Roman Gonzalez? They are all built up like they are invincible and when they lose people are shocked.
Ive thought about this, ive come to the conclusion its splitting hairs really, he quit, doesn't matter whether its once or ten times, hes got form now for quitting, I don't agree you have to have a certain amount of quits to be labelled a quitter, one will do..
This could be the case also thinking about it, is he got quit in him naturally or with the weight of expectation removed you might see a better fighter for it..Time will tell, but my gut feeling is hes never the same, good on top but once theres a challenge, doubt will creep in