Where do you draw the line at Heavyweight vs Super Heavyweight ?

Of course you don’t..you know Usyk can’t handle a freakishly athletic big punching super heavyweight like joshua

I’ll take that bet....as long as it happens before wilders 35th birthday.

I’ll bet you on the following as well

Joshua vs Gassiev - Joshua wins

Fury vs usyk- fury wins

Fury vs Gassiev- fury wins

Gassiev vs wilder- wilder wins

 

Took some big shots from a very hard puncher Ortiz without going down. ORTIZ is a much bigger puncher than Gassiev!

 

Yet you think Gassiev and Usyk are better than Marciano and Dempsey?

 

Mike Weaver put together a new team post Leroy Jones after finding some self belief (thanks Kenny Norton) and dedicated himself a whole lot more to training. He improved a lot from this point on in quite a hurry. These are the facts and anyone with intimate knowledge of Weaver's career would already know this.

Two fights after the Jones fight he stopped the reasonably highly regarded Mercado.

More telling is that Stan Ward, who decisioned him comfortably in his fight prior to Jones was stopped 12 months after their first meeting, 5 months after the Jones fight. There's some proof of improvement right there. 5 months later he had a real coming out party vs Larry Holmes.

So yet again you have no idea what you are rambling about.

Leroy Jones was a heavyweight fighting in the heavyweight division. How thick are you?

Guys like Joshua, Wilder, Ortiz, they'd hammer him. Numerous others too no doubt.

 

Don’t even bother with him

 

I agree with this. These guys deserve prestige. But The fighters in this division are what was recently a modern sized heavyweight now. The same size as Larry Holmes and Ali. it Bothers me somewhat that the next ATG fighter of Ali’s size could go down as an ATG cruiserweight rather than a heavyweight, unles he moves up to take on fighters the size of Abe Simon.

Can you imagine Joe Louis not being regarded as a heavyweight unless he fought Abe Simon?

 

But could Wilder or Joshua even exist in those times. There is evidence these men are unnatural highbrids that are a product of their environment of modern medical intervention.

This is presumably Tyson Fury. I’m not sure Fury is so much further away from Primo Carnera. And I am not sure Fury is that athletic looking. He beat Klitschko but failed a drug test. Then retired to avoid more testing. You seem to be affording Fury a careers worth of merit based on a performance potentially tarnished with drugs cheating.

it is relevant you use the word “freak” to describe Joshua. Unnaturally freakish? An athletic freak of the kind that was nigh on impossible to exist in Dempsey or Marciano time frame. You could say A division of these sized men has taken over not only a division of Dempsey sized heavyweights but Ali sized heavyweights too. And yet there were never enough of them to make the grade until after the wide spread use of PEDs on sport. Is this a coincidence?

I think here you are talking of the spindly Wilder here. Again you imply the word freak. Is it possible for so many physically freakish individuals to exist together in other time frames? And what could be responsible for this? I imagine it is rational to presume fighters of all eras are a product of their individual environment. Fighters of Dempseys time produced the right kind of fighter to succeed in their time. Marciano in his time and today We produce physical freaks (your wording) that are required to succeed now. It is horses for courses. What succeeded in one time might not succeed in another time and it works both ways. Do you believe Joshua and Wilder could even exist in any other period?

indeed. We must all try to be realistic about The unnatural connotation with your wording of “freak” to describe current heavyweights during a time of so many failed drug tests.

 

No, I don't know. Joshua's physical advantages might be too much for Usyk to overcome. Once Usyk moves up to HW we'll have a better idea of how he might cope.

I already have a good idea of how he'll handle Wilder, which is why I'm willing to make a prediction.

He's heavier handed, but a lot slower and more ponderous. Sometimes a lighter puncher can do more damage with sharp combination punching than a club handed behemoth, and Gassiev fits that bill.

H2H or legacy wise?

 

Firstly, if you are too lazy or stupid to read why the **** would anyone think you might maybe might know something that isn't widely known by everyone who signs up for this forum? People who refuse to read ought to have been lumped into my ignorance paragraph really....if you don't read you don't learn.

Ok, maybe I've not been direct enough or not spoken in a manner you understand. I cover over three thousand years of boxing, you are not the biggest anything fan here. You rate him exactly highly enough to have never once in your life bothered to try to answer what is Marciano actually doing in the ring. I do not care how many videos of the man makes yer ***** wet or inversely anyone what makes it dried and cracked. I do not have any respect for the "fandom" of most fans. You stopped short when exploring Marciano to explain Marciano. I know you did because he is what took me to the ancient world. Marciano doesn't make sense in his own time, he doesn't make sense during LPRR, but he does make sense in the ancient form of thinking about boxing. If you were as much fan as I you too would have researched until you had answers but you didn't you assumed and allowed others assumptions to become your own. So you can save your " I'm all about Rock" bull****. You might like Marciano quite a lot, I don't dispute that, but you put no more effort into him than your average fan what has heard his name and watched his fights on YT, maybe read a book or two or watched one of his docs. Check the juxtaposition of who it is you are talking to, why on earth would your vehement feeling mean anything to me? I don't care if you're bias in Marciano's favor, you are ignorant to the big picture and you damn well know it.


Outside of that, all you have written is "but him big doe" in a new world play.

I'm sure AJ would try to keep Marciano back, but since AJ is a track fighter who loses posture as soon as an exchange has begun and can't control the gap against standing targets he'll do a **** job at it. Sure, in the clinch AJ is stronger, but given Joshua knows dick about grappling and Marciano is the smaller man Marciano will have leverage and will move the larger man as he pleases....that is what Judo is for, fool. Joshua's powerline is too **** for his power to be any concern of Marciano. It's what frustrated Moore who had a much better powerline. Doesn't matter how hard you hit if your load has been crowded. The Shield make short work of power, it is its purpose. Everytime he swarms? Have you ever seen Marciano fight? What is this everytime? You mean the beginning of the rounds? Outside of then when would Marciano not be a constant swarm?

Peter Marciano...yeah it's very clear you are either too lazy or too stupid to read. Why does Joshua get the automatic advantage of the present? Joshua can't even fight a 185lber in the present. The only way that fight happens is if you use pre-80s at best rules. Marciano fought a 250lber, Joshua has never and will never fight a 185lbers but Peter Marciano in a private conversation with this poster has informed us Marciano wouldn't fight today's HWs.....like Marciano would have had a ****in choice then or would now....the **** is wrong with you?

Again, Marciano was trained in an era that would allow 185 to fight 265, Joshua is not. He does not have any training for that and there is two thousand years or so of history prior to weight division or time limits for evidence as to how boxing works without time limits or weight divisions. You are a willfully ignorant fool and nothing more.

 

At which fight available do you think he "controlled range brilliantly" and had "good mobility, used clever little feints, and knew when to switch tactics" ?
Good mobility compared to what? To fighters his size and that heavy or SHW in general?

Even today this fighters do not exist very often. You can obviously see (and calculate as well) that the probability to find these fighters depends on how many tall men exist. I´ve calculated this in an example by shifting the mean of height by 2 inches over time, resulting in much less tall men available for boxing out there.

 

Magnificent post.

 

I agree I attribute this to attitudes and 24 hour weigh ins

 

I have to laugh at people who think anyone below 200 could compete with Anthony Joshua

163lb joe choysnko went 20 rounds with 220lb Jeffries. Here is 168lb froch next to 250lb Joshua...look at the size difference.

Guys like fitzsimmons would have gotten murdered trying to fight Joshua

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