Where do you draw the line at Heavyweight vs Super Heavyweight ?

You are talking some garbage that it hurts. Anyone with eyes and a brain can see that Wepner picked up losses everywhere and Charr didn´t. You can give Tiger Williams anything of what Ortiz was on, he still accumulates losses vs. bums. Don´t you argue all the time EVERYONE today is on juice? But knocking on Ortiz door for beating the guys who are on the same stuff he is on...I love your logic. Critisize Ortiz who does what everyone is doing. Applause.
Ortiz beeing on the level of Tiger Williams....Carnera is better than Riddick Bowe right? Youre making a joke out of yourself. The list is endless!

@choklab "Against guys closer to his own size Leroy Jones would get hit less, not more often. And at a pace that would suit him. I ask again, would he compare well with champion Manuel Charr? You must answer this to partly attempt to prove your wild claims."

SHOW THE BIG FELLOWS JONES FOUGHT WHO PROVE YOUR WILD CLAIMS! What a nonsense. One boxer fought an era with 230lb+ guys to a title, the other obviously didn´t. Less than that, he had an weight advantage almost anytime. What fantasy land is this?

 

Wepner never beat the best guys he fought and neither did Charr. Which is exactly what they both have in common. The thing they don’t have in common is Charr somehow ended up with a legitimate World title.

so you accept, endorse the likelihood that modern Superheavyweights exist because of PEDs and that because they are likely all juicing this is what makes them greater than ATG fighters who weigh less?

oh I see. It’s okay to rate a generation of contenders lower because they didn’t fail drugs tests?

yeah right, Manuel Charr really climbed up those ratings didn’t he? Who was the best guy he beat for goodness sake? Please list them. Amy Mike Weaver level guys on that list?

Why should his opponents being closer to 230 prove Charr had a better era of fighters to face? He only beat stiffs who were lighter than him too, apart from one circus freak who is not considered worthy of elite level.

Jones climbing the ratings in a better era, beating a prime Mike Weaver and losing only to ATG Larry Holmes is worse than Manuel Charr getting knocked out by a cruiser?

 

Of course:


Yakup Saglam* 220½ 28 1 0

Denis Bakhtov 226¼ 36 8 0

Kevin Johnson 244¾ 29 5 1

Michael Grant 252¼ 48 5 0

Alex Leapai 252¾ 30 6 3

Sefer Seferi 212¼ 21 0 0

Alexander Ustinov 279 34 1 0

Besides Weaver LOST to ANYBODY before facing Leroy Jones, who has exactly one win of any note to a fighter who lost to a ton of bums before. Into what H2H-god are you transferring Weaver here?

Shall we compare the fighters Weaver lost to and Charr lost to? Are you really building your SHW argument on ONE FIGHT of a 204lb Weaver to proove Jones would compete in a era of 230 pounders?

Proove that SHWs today are juiced. Do you believe PEDs make you heros of the past even taller? For real?

 

Since when is charr a Champion? The champions today are anthony Joshua Deontay wilder and Tyson Fury when he returns is the true lineal champ.

Just because charr won some fake paper title given to him on a technicality, it doesn't make him a champ


Again....Fury Joshua would destroy any super heavyweight sized fighter pre 1980

 

Of course Charr won´t hold that title very long. Because the title holders today are better than him. For some reason, and one win over 204lb Weaver and no wins over any heavy good fighter, choklabs makes fat clumsy Leroy Jones a SHW who would whoop today
Fantasy like a kid in Disneyland.

 

I'm really sorry you felt the need to post all that nonsense. I love the enthusiasm, but you're just not realistic.

Look, I am the biggest Marciano fan in this board. I grew up in the town next to Brockton. I've met and spoke with his family members multiple times. I'm all about Marciano. I've gone on record saying no man past present or future who weighs below 190lb could beat him in a boxing fight. That's how highly I rate him p4p.

However, you are living on fantasy if you think Marciano at 185lb 68" reach could stand a chance in the ring vs a SKILLED athletic 6'6 250lb 83" reach anthony Joshua whom possesses knockout power in both hands and throws hellacious uppercuts and hooks..Joshua would use all his length and physical tools and keep Marciano at bay..every time Marciano tries to swarm in he would be met with a stiff jab of monster uppercut or hook from a man whom outweighs him by 65lb..if he got inside he would be clinched by a very large strong man....Marciano would get knocked out early..the guys so tough he'd probably keep getting back up but the referee would have to save him from further punishment

It's a physical mismatch and unfair to Marciano. I've spoken with his brother peter about this...he said no way would Marciano today walk into the ring at 185lb vs these Giants..he said Rocky would have either fought at cruiserweight or tried to put on 30-40lb and compete at heavyweight..

 

Bingo. Chok's just playing fairytale as usual.

 

John,

Some of these people puzzle me...if they can't see the huge disparity in skill, athleticism, and talent between a Fury, Joshua, Klitschko, Bowe, Lewis compared to a Willard, Carnera, Simon, B Baer, Fulton, L Jones....

It's night and day

 

And I begin to wonder why I waste my time with this.

 

I believe he has mental health issues

 

so you are saying everyone is likely juicing?

This is a selection of guys with manufactured records matched to lose. There are not even any Dino Denis, Larry Frazier’s let alone mike weavers among them.

As you follow boxing, over the years you learn about match making. You learn about the home fighters and the away fighters. Career timing. And also competition. World class fighters can be matched to lose if you match him bad enough and get the timing right. The guys who beat Weaver were guys who wanted to win. You need to see these fighters. Some guys on Weavers record mean absolutely nothing but were really hard men. Larry Frazier was a huge guy. Years later he dwarfed Frank Bruno and he held his own with a lot of fighters taking a prime Greg Page and Pierre Coetzer the distance. He knocked out Mike Weaver. Larry Frazier was Leroy Jones second fight as a pro when Frazier was already 6-0. The guys who beat Weaver were all good guys when he fought them. Jones beat guys who beat Weaver and he beat Weaver.

I’m sorry to break it to you but Leroy Jones was good enough to wind up with a belt today. It’s inarguable.

Weaver demolished John Tate. He demolished Carl Williams. He demolished Gerrie Coetzee and these were fights he was supposed to lose. He beat Bert Cooper as a veteran. Leroy Jones beat Weaver ten months before Weaver gave a prime ATG Larry Holmes a life and death war.

well it isn’t one fight. Jones made the grade during a time when size worked against a bigger man. In an era where he was trying to pin down faster moving fighters, I assume jones would relish teeing off on older prospects with misleading records that happen to be heavier guys like Alex Leapai and Alexander Ustinov.

I think you proved it.

 

I believe saying someone has mental health issues just because you disagree with them is a sure sign you have absolutely no answer.

If Manuel Charr can win a belt in this era of Superheavyweights so can Leroy Jones (a Superheavyweight) who was a better fighter than Charr.

 

I’m playing fairytale?

You are the one peddling the fairytale that mike Weaver somehow turned into a different person in time to fight Larry Holmes just ten months after he lost to Superheavyweight Leroy Jones.

What did he do? The raising of a sequin curtain produced the new Mike Weaver?

 

Indeed I see you believe a lot. Weaver lost to dozens of guys. How many fights of Jones have you seen to believe that? How about the win vs. Weaver? How did he fare vs big fighters like Charr did? Did he look solid?

Ok. Then I´m out here. Taking some of these weird comparisons to serious makes me indeed sound disrespectful at times. I apologize for that @choklab .

 

Anthony Joshua is the WBA heavyweight champion, not Charr