Where do you put Joe Calzaghe among the all time greats?

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He'll easily get in the HoF due to being the first ever champion at 168, his 21 title defences over a decade and winning the LH championship all the while remaining undefeated. But he will most likely fall short of being declared an ATG.

Too many missed oportunities. He could of been the undisputed champion at 168 5 years earlier than he did by beating Ottke. He could of fought the likes of Mitchell, Sheika, Brewer in the states along with making fight against Lucas, Echols, Tate, Johnson to get name recognition in America.

 

:?

Wow! I think I've heard it all know.

 

You are a very special person.

 

Thanks :good

 

He's the third fight from the end on my Chris Eubank career disc, the second fight from the end on the Bernard Hopkins' career disc (at the moment), and the second fight from the end on the Roy Jones, Jr. career disc.


Seriously, are you kidding? ... among the all time greats? Joe is a very good fighter but you have to consider his comp and the timing and the selection of opponents in combination with what he really represented as an athlete (from watching all of his fights).

[url]http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3957553#post3957553[/url]

As posted on the Hatton = Fraud thread

If Ricky had not fought Floyd in 2008 (or if Floyd had only been over 40 years of age) and had fought someone like the 35 year old Witter in 2009 instead of Pac (and mauled and held his way to a hometown decision) he could have retired 46-0 or 47-0 and it would be argued that he was an ATG.

The same can be said of Calzaghe. If you watch the Eubank fight he gets caught over and over again by right hands that he never sees and can't avoid. Eubank was way past peak and with the exception of three of the first four rounds it can be argued that the decision could have went the other way - it was a close fight. After Eubank, Joe doesn't fight a fighter even as good as that past peak version of Eubank for about ten years (if not the rest of career, the exception being BH who was as gray as Gandalf when he fought Joe). Eleven years after Eubank, a completely shot RJJ and an ancient Bernard Hopkins both hit Joe with right hands he couldn't see nor avoid and he got dropped.

It is all about comp. Records can be illusions. Props to Ricky for having the balls to challenge the best. Unfortunately, biased refs, predisposed judges, leaning officials, and favorable hometown conditions only mask a fighter's weaknesses. If you can manage to avoid facing great fighters for an entire career or only when they are past it then you can have a long and profitable career. Hopefully these occurrences will be less and less frequent. If you can avoid facing great fighters perhaps you can stay pristine and still be sturdy well into your thirties. Ricky chose to face great fighters in their prime and these KOs are adding up and his punch resistance looks questionable at best. He's 30 and he's near done.

Joe escaped with his 46-0 and some argue he's an ATG. But it's not so. Eubank said Joe was easy to hit and that Joe didn't seem to be able to see the punches coming. That is because while being a very good fighter he isn't that combination of being a great athlete and a great fighter. The reflexes and vision of the real elites are just at a higher level. Just as Pac demolished Hatton, prime RJJ (and many, many others from middleweight on up of the past several generations) would have done the exact same thing to Joe. If he had had to face more Eubank level fighters he would have inevitably been broken down and not gotten to the end of his career with his chin in tact.

Hatton's career has been carefully managed. When he actually had to step up and fight some prime, elite comp, he got destroyed both times.

The last great fighter out of the UK, is Lennox Lewis.


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In front of them.















Bent over.

 

:rofl:rofl You're wrong for that one!

 

he is GREAT. About top 500. lmao.