Where do you rank Andre Ward as an ATG?

Ward is probably in the same category of fighters such as James Toney, Wilfred Benitez, Prince Naseem, Vitali Klitschko etc where they could have been the best ever in their respective divisions but due to factors such as injuries, dedication, contractual disputes, poor matchmaking or indeed just bad luck it never happened for them.

He is definitely top 3 at 168 lbs with Jones Jr and Calzaghe.

Not sure about 175lbs to be honest.

 

I'd say he's at the top of that category then. Benitez, Hamed, and Vitali had worse careers than he did. Toney accomplished a lot but was inconsistent so that's a difficult comparison.

 

Good god, how many times do I have to spell this out. You simply don't know how fights are scored.

Punch stats, knock down, more punches thrown in an even split of rounds, more power punches...

Guy, you are making a fool of yourself.

 

The Schmeling effect is when fighters both gain by having a good series in which each wins and loses. It is the paradox of being elevated partially by losing. The number of fights is not relevant.

 

Okay then, so they didn't need another fight.

 

Exactly.

 

HOF yes. ATG (Top 100) no.

 

Yeah I would agree with that.

 

I'm not the one using Compubox to score fights - You are.

 

He just didn't fight many superfights. Kovalev has turned out to be overrated. He had a good string of wins, but not an ATG list. He retired too soon and has some good wins. I rate him at 168 top 10 but I don't know where else. His potential was more than what it turned out.

 

I don't see it. He is not in with those top guys. ATG no way. Hall of fame sure.

 

Christ in heaven...punches landed is the primary way fights are scored. I mentioned by name the other factors: effective aggression, defense, knockdowns...and stated plainly why no case can be made since the knockdowns went against him, he did not outland in a majority of rounds, he landed few power punches....

Are you really such a brick-stupid **** that you don't understand this? Why do you talk about a sport you don't understand? Really?

 

Stop being such a cretin and save your fake indignation and insults for the idiots you're obviously used to imposing your own brand of ignorance on. This is what you stated:

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From the outset, I told you that fights are NOT scored using the punch stats - you haven't been able to acknowledge that fact - and, yes, it is a fact: Boxing matches are not scored using Compubox.

There's no getting away from the fact that you have based your scoring on the punch stats. Worse still, is your implying that because those numbers exist, they support your 'mention' of "defense and effective aggression". You do not mention ring generalship and have actually gone further, in your post above, by almost dismissing the relevance of the other factors used to score a boxing match, outside of clean, hard punching (Compubox cannot even be relied upon for that one factor, either).

So - I do "understand". I understand perfectly and my point still stands. You don't score professional boxing matches using punch stats and, in many respects, you are demonstrating the reason why they are not used to do so - Because, they can only attempt to illustrate just one aspect of the story of a fight and, at present, they don't really paint that picture all that accurately.

 

You don’t know much about the history of LHW, do you?

 

I think I do buddy. Ward would be a handful for anyone he just didn't spend much time there because he could still make 168. In the era of smae day weigh ins he would probably have fought at 175. You don't think he could have beaten Maxim, Johnson. Sadd Muhammed or Tiger? Top twenty based on his talent and ability is not a stretch. I'm not saying he would beat Spinks or Charles but I would not be shocked if he did. He was a dominant Amatuer and pro that completely cleared out 168. All those guys in the 168 tournament would have fought at LH in the same day weight in era. Oh well, according to you I don't know what I am talking about.