Where do you rank Andre Ward as an ATG?

I get that he didn't fight at LH long because he still could make SM comfortably but pre SM division and with same day weigh ins he would have fought at LH and I believe would have been a handful for anyone. Unfortunately we will never know for sure.

 

‘Do I think he could beat’ and ‘is a top 20 LHW of all time’ are completely different arguments unless you rank entirely on H2H.

If you do, fair enough. If Kovalev caused him issues then Saad should be favoured to beat him, and Maxim was basic but very strong and durable also.

When you say Johnson do you mean Harold Johnson? Not sure why you’re mentioning him, he should be massively favoured over Ward.

 

It is tough to compare fighters from this era to ones of old. So many factors to consider like same day weigh and the fact that SM division did not exist.

I guess we will agree to disagree agree. I did not appreciate you saying I don't know much about the light heavyweight division. I have been around boxing my whole life and continue to spar in my forties because of my love for the sport. I know a great fighter when I see one and Ward on every level he fought at (pro&amateur) fought the best of his era.

I was speaking of Harold Johnson who I think very highly of but believe he was just outside of Moore, Spinks, Charles. I don't know that Ward would beat any of those guys but Ward was a complete fighter and I would not count him out against anyone.

 

Effective aggression
Ring generalship
Defense
Hard and clean punches

 

I agree with this. Its too bad Ward retired rather than face a very good group of light heavyweights. I had Kovalev the winner in the first fight. Ward won the second, but he used low blows to finish Kovalev.

Ward vs Gvozdyk or Bivol would be interesting.

 

Kovlaev-Ward 1 had three swing rounds. Those rounds were round 3, 10, and one of the middle ones (I think 8). Score two of those for Ward, and you have him ahead by one point. Score 2 of them for Kovalev, and you have him ahead by one point.

 

My personal swing rounds were 3 and 12-I split them and scored it 114-113 Kovalev. But you can get to seven for Ward, I think, so this hardly qualifies as a robbery, imo. Just a close, either way decision that happened to go Ward's way.

 

I wish I could superlike this post

 

I don’t. He’ll get in the HOF but that’s the extent of it for me. He has talent and smarts but it’s very disappointing that he was also the dirtiest fighter of his era. The Kovalev fights were unfair IMO - a clear loss and a clear taking advantage of an incompetent/biased ref and low blows.

168 is very new but top 5 sounds about right and obviously nowhere at 175 where head to head I’d favor many and obviously resume I’d favor even more.

 

People are going to be doing Joe Calzaghe vs Andre Ward hypothetical matchups for next 50 years

 

Ward is lineal. I spelled that one out earlier in the thread.

 

Well to me Toney is an ATG (Top 50-100 ATG). This view was also shared by the Ring Magazine a number of years back. Ward is a HOF but no ATG in my book . What definetely separates Toney from Ward are his heavyweight accomplishments. His inconsistency is an issue though and that costs him a higher ranking.

 

Toney's career was nothing like Ward's. A better comparison is Calzaghe. He and Ward should be about one space apart and most likely comfortably in the top 100 when the Ring does another top 100.