Where do you rank em...

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Charlie, Jun 19, 2010.


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  1. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    Pac top 15, Mayweather top 20 or 25.
     
    Bogotazo, Jun 19, 2010
    Bogotazo, Jun 19, 2010
    #31
  2. MrMagic

    MrMagic Loyal Member Full Member

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    Ali is top10, as is Joe Louis, they're both ahead of Manny Pacquiao as of now, mind you. :good
     
    MrMagic, Jun 19, 2010
    MrMagic, Jun 19, 2010
    #32
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Accoriding to this list, you have Pacqioa ranked above Ezzard Charles. Here is a (very) brief breakdown of Charles's acheivements.

    As a teenager he twice beat Charley Burley. Burley was one of the very best fighters of the day, one of the very best Middleweight in history, and in my opinion, one of the best fighters that ever breathed. This is something like the equivilant of Pacquiao beating someone like Orlando Canizales at bantamweight as a teenager.


    He then moved up to LHW. Here, he cemented his reputation as one of the best LHW's in history - probably the #1 ATG ever at that weight. Amongst his ATG victims were Lloyd Marshall and Jimmy Bivins. But his crowing glory was THREE wins over the divisions ATG #2 - Archie Moore, including one by knockout.

    These three wins, alone, in my opinion, mean that Charles should be above Moore. Moore is the #2 fighter in the history of this division. Charles is #1. This is like Ali beating Louis three times.

    What is Pacquiao's best weight head to head? Maybe lightweight? I would say lightweight is where he looked the most incredible without being to out-sized. This achievment for Charles is a little like Pacquiao knocking out Whitaker or Duran or Gans and then beating him twice on the cards. Pacquiao has nothing like these wins. Nothing like. If he beats Mayweather three times...

    Then, Charles became the world's best HW, and generally still appears on ATG HW top 20 lists, rightly so.


    Does Pacquiao really deserve to be above him?
     
    McGrain, Jun 19, 2010
    McGrain, Jun 19, 2010
    #33
  4. Bladegunner

    Bladegunner Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ok now where is Pac currently according to you?
     
    Bladegunner, Jun 19, 2010
    Bladegunner, Jun 19, 2010
    #34
  5. PBFred

    PBFred Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Duran is widely considered top 10 and SRL is widely considered 10-15. Winner of Mayweather/Pac certainly pass SRL with Pac sliding in around Duran if he wins.

    Nostalgia blinds people when compiling these kinds of lists but 20 years from now both May and Pac will find themselves ranked among those who are idolized currently IMO.
     
    PBFred, Jun 19, 2010
    PBFred, Jun 19, 2010
    #35
  6. Crax Sellerman

    Crax Sellerman Guest

    I agree 100%.
     
    Crax Sellerman, Jun 19, 2010
    Crax Sellerman, Jun 19, 2010
    #36
  7. MrMagic

    MrMagic Loyal Member Full Member

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    Hard to say, somewhere along the likes of Jimmy Wilde, Monzon and Walker.
    At about 17-20, take your pick.
     
    MrMagic, Jun 19, 2010
    MrMagic, Jun 19, 2010
    #37
  8. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    And how many Charlie Burley fights have you seen to form an informed opinion that he is "one of the best fighters that ever breathed"? :roll:
     
    dangerousity, Jun 19, 2010
    dangerousity, Jun 19, 2010
    #38
  9. Bladegunner

    Bladegunner Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I don't think mayweather or pac are half the fighter duran and leonard were. They certainly don't have the wins to back up such a claim.

    Pac biggest win is Barerra. Mayweather biggest win is Oscar. Leonard biggest wins are Hagler, Hearns, Duran and Benitez.
     
    Bladegunner, Jun 19, 2010
    Bladegunner, Jun 19, 2010
    #39
  10. MrMagic

    MrMagic Loyal Member Full Member

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    I see what you say McGrain, and you're obviously a student of the sport.
    I do not rank Manny ahead of Ezzard now.
    Time will only tell, if he beats Floyd Mayweather and retires we may come to see him under a different light amongst these other greats.

    Ezzard is clearly steaming ahead of Pacquiao as of now, don't get me wrong.
     
    MrMagic, Jun 19, 2010
    MrMagic, Jun 19, 2010
    #40
  11. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yea, I wonder, during their time, someone who was from the 80's how many viewed Duran as top 10 ATG yet alone top 5?
     
    dangerousity, Jun 19, 2010
    dangerousity, Jun 19, 2010
    #41
  12. MrMagic

    MrMagic Loyal Member Full Member

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    Thats why I don't want to rank active fighters, most of us remember how little credit and respect Lennox Lewis had when he was active, now that some years have passed many rate him amongst the very best.
     
    MrMagic, Jun 19, 2010
    MrMagic, Jun 19, 2010
    #42
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    One. Versus a murderous-punching light-heavyweight contender good enough to fight a draw with Archie Moore and beat Lloyd Marshall. Burley was giving away 12lbs.

    Highights.


    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81non05aKX4&feature=PlayList&p=EF105418FA09F8D1&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=24[/ame]


    As to your rolling your eyes, have you ever tried to form a detailed impression of a fighter with limited footage? Or just presumed it's something I can't do?
     
    McGrain, Jun 19, 2010
    McGrain, Jun 19, 2010
    #43
  14. Bladegunner

    Bladegunner Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    So you have mayweather between 20-30 on the p4p ATG list.

    And you have pac between 17-20 p4p ATG list.

    Yet you somehow think a win over mayweather can make pac jump a minimum of 12 places to a top 5 ATG. Yet Pac is currently p4p number 1 and is currently fighting in the same weight division as floyd.

    You cant see the hypocrisy here?
     
    Bladegunner, Jun 19, 2010
    Bladegunner, Jun 19, 2010
    #44
  15. PBFred

    PBFred Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The 80's were also boxing's most popular period and the elite fighters were household names, which cloud judgement when comparing them to fighters today.

    Listen to Roach, Roger Mayweather, etc, they all claim that boxers today are better than they were 20-30 years ago.
     
    PBFred, Jun 19, 2010
    PBFred, Jun 19, 2010
    #45
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