Where Do You Rank Evander Holyfield As A Heavyweight?

10th.

 

Tyson was shot to pieces when Lewis beat him, Holyfield was over the hill also.

 

Evander I think, found himself in an unenviable position during his early 90's title reign.

He won the belt from a fat, disinterested Douglas with a classy showing. Many experts still felt that if Tokyo Douglas showed up, the title would not have changed hands that night. Whatever the case, you can;t blame Evander for Douglas' effort, or lack thereof.

He was pretty much obligated to fight both Foreman and Holmes, two forty-something year olds.
On paper, it doesn't look good that he went to a decision in both fights.

It must be kept in mind though, that these were two exceptional forty-something fighters, both of whom had certainly earned a title shot.
Nobody except for Ali ever knocked out Foreman, so it's no shame that Evander didn't. He did win easily enough though.
Holmes was again only ever stopped by one man, and the style he employed for the Holyfield bout was always going to make it hard for Evander to look good there.
There are a lot of legendary champions that would have done no better in those fights...

Then he got rocked and almost knocked out by Bert Cooper, who was a late substitute. Evander came in overconfident and eager to impress, partly because he was fighting in his hometown and partly because, I suspect, he wasn't happy at the criticism at not being able to KO Foreman, and almost paid the price.
Still though, he roared back in impressive fashion and stopped his stubborn opponent. Isn't that what champions are supposed to do?

It was also somewhat unfortunate for him to run into a prime Riddick Bowe, who was still a hungry fighter then. Say what you will about Bowe, but when on song he was a damn impressive fighter. Sure Bowe won fair and square, but if Evander's fighting spirit was ever in question, surely in this fight he silenced all critics.
Outsized and outgunned, he refused to back down to his much larger opponent and fought back hard right to the last. That's heart.

Joe Frazier and Rocky Marciano are noted for their rugged determination and fighting heart and they fully deserve their plaudits, but neither ever had to face a good, big, technical fighter who could punch like Bowe could.
Just some food for thought...

If the first fight showed Evander's courage, the second showed his ability to adapt and to learn from past mistakes. He added a little bit of size and boxed more, yet still brawled when he needed to. I had Bowe in front by a point at the end, but Holyfield put on such a good showing, that I won't argue if anyone scored it for him.
It was another gritty display full of character, and Holyfield not for the first time (nor for the last) confounded the experts, most of which picked Bowe to beat him.

He then lost a rubber match to Bowe in a highly competitive fight, and then beat 20-1 favourite Tyson. I think Tyson was still a highly capable fighter at this point, with very quick hands, knockout power in either hand, and was full of ferocity. He was on a roll, and looked destined for a second reign of terror.
Holyfield proved superior not once, but twice.

He really lost both fights to Lewis but he was much more competitive the second time around, and let's be fair he had been in a lot of wars at this point and was not the fighter he had been. Lewis had come into his own at this point and was about as physically good as he had ever been. Yet he still went 24 rounds with Lewis, and was never in any real danger throughout.

Recently he should have by rights beaten a 7' foot giant to win the title yet again. Okay, I'm making it sound more dramatic and impressive than it really is (Valuev sucks) but Evander was what? 46 years old and much, much smaller. I actually feared for his well-being, but this is Evander Holyfield were talking about.
I should have known he'd suprise us all once again.

Fair enough, he did look mediocre on occasion. He sometimes seemed to fight down to his opponent's level. I think he was great when he needed to be though, and that's really what matters.

I think he'd be competitive with any heavyweight in history, and I think he'd spring a few surprises along the way.

For me he's a top ten heavyweight.

 

A fair, well balanced post. Good stuff. Only things I'd say is that Holyfield was out on his feet in the first Lewis fight, but Lennox just decided not to up the ante so much. Whilst Tyson looked impressive in his comback initially hindsight tells me that I don't think he'd have beaten Lewis or Holyfield (certainly not at that point anyway).

 

Regarding the Holmes fight, Holyfield was contracted to fight the winner of Holmes v Mercer, with everyone, including Holyfields camp, expecting Mercer to win. When Holmes pulled off the upset Holyfield was obligated to fight him. It wasn't a case of seeking out the easiest competition.

 

i rank lewis way in front of him (lewis is my nr 6 atg heavyweight) and tyson i have also a bit higher. holyfield somewhere between 10 and 12

 

Just out of interest what would your top 6 be?

 

Lewis 4th
Tyson 8th


My top 10 is:


1. Louis
2. Ali
3. Holmes
4. Lewis
5. Liston
6. Johnson
7. Marciano
8. Tyson
9. Frazier
10. Holyfield

 

7-15

above Tyson

 

Excellent post!!!!

What always makes me laugh is when I watch the interviews after the 1st Bowe vs Holyfield fight (the one where Bowe and Lewis argue) and Evander is talking about retirement then.....16 years later I have him beating a 7 foot giant for a title!!!

Unreal.

 

Maybe I need to look at the first fight again...but I'll take your word for it.

Regarding Tyson...I think you have a point, but at worst he was still a top 4 or 5 guy. It was (for me at least) a very impressive showing for Holyfield.

 

You cant ask Fraizer or Marciano fight a foe that is not out there in there hey days.

Bowe was around during Holyfiled's day. I also feel Bowe gets a bit over rated with his showings vs Holyfiled.

 

Tyson still looks like a wrecking machine in '96 to me. He demolished Bruno faster than anyone ever did and while Mathis gave him some trouble, he still won within 3 rounds with a beautiful double left hook combination, quickly followed up by more smooth punches right on target. A boxer who has lost his timing just doesn't do that. Holyfield was further gone than Tyson, and to me this was a fantastic win for him, as well as a fantastic fight. Without those two wins, i probably wouldn't have him in my top10, but as it is he has ever right to be there.

 

Dafoenantiliy a HOFer

 

Interesting thread. My take is as follows:

Holyfield is a warrior no question about it. And if he's not in the top 10, he's close. I personally think his fight against Tyson is somewhat over-rated, in that I actually picked Holyfield to win that fight, regardless of odds. I knew at the time that Tyson was fighting 2nd and 3rd raters who would actually freeze up at soon at the fight started, and he never had many rounds under his belt if a war were to take place, nor was Tyson ever known for winning wars. In his prime, he mostly just blew out his comp to the point that wars never took place. In fact, and this is actually a tribute to Tyson, not a knock against him, he probably won about 50-60% of his fights before the bell even rang.

Lewis was a different story. Many who want to prop up Holyfield vis-a-vis Lewis do so but citing their 2nd fight, but these people forget they fought twice, not once. Objective scores would likely score these figthts about 9-3 Lewis in the first fight and 8-4 Lewis in the second fight. So while the second fight is closer, you're still looking at a combined total of about 17-7 give or take a round or two.

With Bowe, this is hard to judge, Bowe, like Douglas, looked very good for a short period of time again one fighter. So is this styles making fights, or is Bowe as good as we think? I personally think Bowe avoided Lewis for whatever reason, but that the fights between him and Holyfield were legendary. And Holyfield deserves props for his efforts, which essentially amounted to trench warfare against a bigger, stronger man.

As for rating him, that's no easy task. I think if he were to fight the Ali's, Holmes, Johnsons, Lewis's of the division he would probably be outboxed, but outside of possibly prime Foreman or Tyson, I don't think anyone knocks him out.

I personally have him ranked 11th, Lewis 5th and Tyson 10th, but there's certainly room for movement. Holyfield could be anywhere from 7-12th or thereabout.

Funny, I remember discussing this topic about 7-8 years ago and one guy on the AOL boxing forum I was on, had all three of them ranked 6th because he couldn't differentiate beween them, and remember pausing and thinking I hope we appreciate this era, how fortunate we are to be watching three fighters in the heavyweight division who will be considered ATG's. Holyfield was one of those three.