Where do you rank Jersey Joe Walcott ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Sonny's jab, Apr 17, 2008.


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  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    Do you see the historical paralel though?
     
    janitor, Apr 18, 2008
    janitor, Apr 18, 2008
    #46
  2. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I agree to some extent. Marciano is a concencus top 5 all time great, and Walcott's first effort against him was likely Rocky's toughest fight. Joe should be highly commended for his efforts here. He took tons of punishment, while dishing out plenty of his own. Joe Walcott, was in my opinion, one of the most deserving challengers of all time, given the circumstances of his career, and the product that he produced considering..

    Every die hard fight fan should have a copy of Marciano-Walcott I in their collection. It was truly one of the greatest heavyweight battles of all time and one that was all about who wanted it more. I may have it. At Christmas time this year, I recieved a CD with the top 10 best heavy's of all time. I have not yet gotten around to watching it, but Rocky and Joe are both on there, and I'm sure clips of there battle are in it......Of course, I've seen the fight a few times before on cable networks. Never get tired of watching it.
     
    mr. magoo, Apr 18, 2008
    mr. magoo, Apr 18, 2008
    #47
  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Agreed.
     
    Mendoza, Apr 18, 2008
    Mendoza, Apr 18, 2008
    #48
  4. Marciano Frazier

    Marciano Frazier Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Foreman was 8-1 favorite over Ali and lost. Do oddsmakers create the measuring bar for a fighter's performance?

    He had two wins over Maxim, and the AP scorecard had Walcott winning 6-3-1 in his "loss" to Maxim!

    I believe he was "not trying" because he was more than a little frustrated by a certain opponent.

    Curtis Sheppard was one of the biggest punchers of the 1940s, the only man ever to stop Joey Maxim and had Moore down twice as well, and Walcott came off the floor to dominate and knock him out.

    It is true that, circumstances being as they were, Walcott couldn't produce the performance level he should have when he was young, but evidently he wasn't "too" old when he was finally able to fully apply himself, given his world heavyweight championship and victories over four (should've been five) future Hall-of-Famers.
     
    Marciano Frazier, Apr 18, 2008
    Marciano Frazier, Apr 18, 2008
    #49
  5. Sonny's jab

    Sonny's jab Guest

    I know nothing about the Walcott-Murray fight but if Lee Q. was really disqualified for "not trying" then you have to question the legitimacy of the match in the first place. Sounds like Murray might have been following orders. I think it was commonplace in those days. Most of these guys probably carried a few, tanked a few, fought handcuffed at times. I daresay Walcott did so on occasions too.
     
    Sonny's jab, Apr 18, 2008
    Sonny's jab, Apr 18, 2008
    #50
  6. Sonny's jab

    Sonny's jab Guest

    I'd probably put Walcott in the top 10.
     
    Sonny's jab, Apr 19, 2008
    Sonny's jab, Apr 19, 2008
    #51
  7. rendog67

    rendog67 The firestarter Full Member

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    top 20 for sure, maybe about 17
     
    rendog67, Apr 19, 2008
    rendog67, Apr 19, 2008
    #52
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Louis in his autobiography said he thought he won the fight ,he left the ring in disgust at the quality of the fight not because he thought he had lost ,Louis said Walcott didnt take the title from him as a challenger should.It was certainly close ,I have only seen high lights so cant judge it.Those sports programmes "How It Was" give a very good account ,with Walcott and Louis in the studio,they are available on You Tube.
     
    mcvey, Apr 19, 2008
    mcvey, Apr 19, 2008
    #53
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    14-22 is justifiable in my opinion. Anyone who has him in the top 12 has some explaining to do in my mind, anyone who has him outside the top 25 hsa to do the same. As this thread demonstrates, he's a difficult subject.
     
    McGrain, Apr 19, 2008
    McGrain, Apr 19, 2008
    #54
  10. Sonny's jab

    Sonny's jab Guest

    I'd have him in the top 10, I think.
    But then I wouldn't have chaff like Lewis and Tyson clogging up my top 10 like most people here do. :lol:
     
    Sonny's jab, Apr 19, 2008
    Sonny's jab, Apr 19, 2008
    #55
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    There is no case for rating Walcott above Tyson and Lewis in my view.

    Which others do you rate him above out of Dempsey, Wills, Hollyfield, Holmes, Marciano, Jeffries, Johnson, Ali, Louis, Liston?
     
    McGrain, Apr 19, 2008
    McGrain, Apr 19, 2008
    #56
  12. Sonny's jab

    Sonny's jab Guest

    Jeffries and Wills I wont rate because unfortunately I haven't seen footage of them in their primes. I cant compare them against fighters I've seen on film just on other criteria alone.

    I'd rate Walcott above Holyfield and Johnson.

    I'd PERHAPS rate him above Liston and Holmes.
     
    Sonny's jab, Apr 19, 2008
    Sonny's jab, Apr 19, 2008
    #57
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    If you are excluding Wills and Jeffries on the basis of prime film you obviously put a lot of stock in how a fighter looks on film - the idea that you could see the destrcution that Liston wreaks on his opponents and the skills that Holmes demonstrates in title matches and STILL find a way to consider them inferior to Walcott is a little strange to me.

    But each man's list is his own, I suppose!

    How do you see Walcott doing in trilogies with Tyson and Lewis, peak for peak?
     
    McGrain, Apr 19, 2008
    McGrain, Apr 19, 2008
    #58
  14. Sonny's jab

    Sonny's jab Guest

    I'm saying I'm undecided thus far on where Walcott rates against Holmes and Liston.

    Liston's quitting against Clay might pull him down a bit. If anything needs explaining, that does. I agree that Liston wreaked destruction on opponents, but Walcott's one-punch KO of Charles is better than any individual KO Liston produced (I dont think Liston even beat a fighter as good as Charles. Perhaps Patterson comes closest). Walcott knocked Joe Louis down 3 times (in 2 fights), and knocked Marciano down too. Put Liston in with a young future top great heavyweight (Clay/Ali) and his failure to do any damage was pitiful.

    Having said that, Liston might make my top 5. I'm just saying there are reasons to doubt.

    Holmes demonstrated "skills" - plural of skill - but so did Walcott. Walcott had numerous skills.
    Holmes had a great run BUT ... (and I know you wont agree) ... I'm not sure he would have got past his second defense had he been in with a peak Marciano.

    Holmes bleats on about how tough he had it coming up the ratings, but I reckon it pales in comparison against how Walcott lived in the 1930s, and the cut-throat nature of boxing in that time and place for a black heavyweight.

    Dunno about trilogies.

    I reckon Walcott at his best beats Tyson down for 8-10 rounds and knocks him out.

    I reckon he'd knock Lewis out with a single counter-punch.
     
    Sonny's jab, Apr 19, 2008
    Sonny's jab, Apr 19, 2008
    #59
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    :censored
     
    McGrain, Apr 19, 2008
    McGrain, Apr 19, 2008
    #60
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