Where do you rank sonny liston?

Dempsey was streetfighting with no amateur record and he was fighting just to have to eat.
He was a hobo.

 

Sonny fought LHW bum 30 pounds lighter than him so it's nothing incredible because he failed to do it in the right place at the right time.

Several?
They were rare because fighters back then were real man and would fight in any condition especially in early 20th century those fighters were monsters because they fought twice a week with injuries, hungry or sick.

 

I said that Floyd was never teated before and after Johanson he felt protected that's why he accepted Liston's challenge.
Also thatmeans that he was already known as protected small fighter with glass jaw.

 

the fact that Marty Marshall was 30 pounds smaller than Sonny was Marshall's problem, not Liston's. The fact that Liston was a big heavyweight was his advantage, not his disadvantage. The fact that Purritty was a much better yourneyman than Marshal is already your opinion. I can agree with her, but I think it is not as big a difference as the difference between Wlad's and Sonny's experience. The fact that Wlad could have retaliated is ok, but Sonny did it, Wlad didn't. Wlad also lost in a much worse way. In the end - Sonny has proven so clearly that he was historically a much better fighter than Marshall that talking about his defeat against him can only prove that he was inconsistent and not always well prepared, which would be correct. At the same time, prepared was a real monster, just like Dundee, Steward, Foreman, Ali etc. said and as we all saw.
I noticed that you use funny arguments, e.g. regarding Patterson - You claim that Floyd had a broken chin in the first fight with Johanson, so how did he win the second and third fight with Ingo? so the broken chin probably didn't bother him... in both fights with Liston, Floyd was brutally beaten, and yet in subsequent fights he performed convincingly, confirming that despite these beatings, he is still an elite fighter, even though he was clearly past prime. In fact, Clay - like Lennox Lewis - purged the 1960s of players already purged. Williams, Folley, Patterson and Liston were not the same players as when they clashed. Apart from Terrell, who was not ATG, none of them were rising boxers but more or less broken, tired old-timers. Basically, all the arguments you cite convince me more and more that Liston is a player greatly underestimated by people like you

 

Still not making sense.

 

Exactly so how does that differ from Liston's fights outside the ring which
you quoted as forming part of Liston's boxing education.

 

Eh ? Still not making sense mate.

 

The fact that Liston lost against someone who is a bum and even 30 lbs lighter is also Liston problem and ya all pulling excuses still.

Sonny and Wlad's experience was not similar but Wlad fought man who is full sized journeyman heavyweight that actually beat some numes unlike Liston who fought much worse fighter who is smaller than him and got his jaw broken.

Because Ingo wasn't very good fighter but he exposed Patterson who was at the time very protected fighter.

That's just because Clay beat them without breaking a sweat and you don't like since it hurts your hero reputation.

If someone beat Liston opponent easier than him you'll find thousand excuses to cover that.

Greatly underestimated my arse, he fought people smaller than him in the weakest era possible, **** himself in the two biggest fights of his life and cheated by using substances on his gloves.

He never beat any good full suze Hw just questionable small guys and few big journeymans.

I believe he is top 15 but for sure not top 10.

 

Patty was protected fighter and Johanson was the first one who exposed him.

I know that you, Liston fans can't take that someone beat his opponents before him ir easier than him or both.

 

I just said that Liston was introduced to boxing at early age, he knew basics and later became amateur and got prison amateur fighting experience.

 

It makes, becuase everyone knows that Dempsey threw these fights.

 

Do you seriously doubt that Dempsey was introduced to boxing at an early age.
Come on man,get real

 

A few visits to a boxing gym at the age of 14 does not constitute a significant grounding
in boxing.
You really grasping at straws here.

 

The following is from an article in the Ring digital magazine February 2024,heading Kings of Cancellation :

Rocky Marciano postponed rematch with Jersey Joe Walcott because he had a bloody nose.

Mike Tyson cancelled 1991 fight with Evander Holyfield because of a rib injury.

Sugar Ray Robinson postponed fights because he felt tired or wasn't in shape.

Thomas Hearns cancelled a fight with Marvin Hagler because he injured his
little finger.

Marvin Hagler postponed a fight with Fulgencio Obelmejias because of an injured rib.

Marvin Hagler also postponed a fight with Wilford Scypion because of an injured knee.

Mike Weaver postponed a fight with Tex Cobb because he injured a shoulder.

Tex Cobb postponed the rescheduled fight with Weaver because of a split lip.

It's fair to say all these guys cancelled fights because of problems far less
serious than the shoulder-conditions that Sonny Liston was suffering from.

 

You can't make this true just by saying it over and over again. The reason I won't "admit" that Martin had an existing eye problem is that there's no evidence of it. Instead, there are multiple statements by both Martin and his manager making it clear that his injury happened during the Liston fight.

As the UPI reported following Martin's eye surgery:

Martin believes he injured the right eye in last Saturday's knockout victory over Sonny Liston.

https://ibb.co/58s9xGB

This is bizarre even by your standards. The 20 year old Williams beat Simmons by overwhelming margins on all cards. Simmons stopped punching after being decked in the fifth and went into survival mode.

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-tampa-tribune/70466805/
https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-tampa-tribune/70343129/