Where do you rank sonny liston?

Living in the wild west as a hobo fighting for food and place to sleep is tougher than anything Liston did in his life.

Especially if you native american and irish deacent.

 

Capable of what?
Losing half of his fights and losing against everyone because he was a small weak construction worked?

He was a bum, not even that by watching his record.
Of what was Marshall capable instead losing, many worse fighters than Listo had easier time against Marshall than Liston.

But Marciano never quit and Liston did, woulda and shoulda doesn't count in boxing and that's what matters.
Liston never had any more heart than Marciano who has no quit inside him unlike Liston who quit 2 times against Ali and cheated by using substances on his gloves.

After watching Walcott and Ezzard Charles fights I could for sure state that Marciano is one of the or maybe even the bravest fighter in boxing history.

Angelo Dunde said but Ali didn't, Ali disagrees with him and stated few times it was on purpose.

As for Machen, he wasn't known as a liar so I could take his arguments over yours with ease.

He quit twice in both Ali fights, he didn't jave any injury in 2nd fight and quit still.

How's a quitter not a quitter when he quit twice and showed no heart?

 

If Marshall's win was not a coincidence, it means that Liston made colossal progress by first losing to Marty and then outclassing him.
twice and doing the same to the linear champion and the top of that era. Even more appreciation for his abilities, you simply chose the second option, there is no third option From defeating Marshall to outclassing the entire HW - isn't it great? Isn't that impressive? doesn't this mean that Sonny was an outstanding boxer who was neglected at the beginning of his career?
Patterson fought Ali twice, Quarry twice, Ellis, Johanson three times, Machen, Durell, Moore... who of them knocked him out in the first round? Name someone who has done it at least once and I will immediately name you one who has done it twice

 

Outclassing Marshall is achievement?
The man was a bum 30 pounds heavier than Liston and again Marshall went distance with him in their 3rd fight.

Linear champion who?
Patterson in the weakest era of boxing history of late 50s?

Wow defeating bum Marshall is huge achievement.

Outclassing who because except Patterson who was small Hw and one handed glass jaw Williams isn't achievement.

Had he cleaned late 60s or early 70s era I would consider him good but since he fought in the weakest era of late 50s I could not.

Quarry was contender and the rest were too, if Patrerson faced Tyson or Foreman instead Liston he would maybe even get killed.

And no one of the rest were good punchers and power punchers to prove only Liston could KO Patterson and he wasn't even the first one, Johnason cracked Patty's chin before Liston.

 

Of course, outclassing Marshal is no achievement. We don't admire Liston for this, but for outclassing the linear master, who else did it? who reached the top in this style? That's why Liston is absolutely unique, he conquered Mount Everts by running up it

 

Marty Marshall won 27 fights out of 41 fights.You really do need to go Maths classes
again.Marshall clearly won more than half of his fights and by a considerable margin.
And no,he was not a '' bum ''.By the way,construction-workers aren't '' weak '' men !

You really do have double standards don't you ? You excuse Marciano for cancelling
a fight because of a mere bloody nose but you condemn Liston for '' quitting '' ( according
to you ) when he sustained a torn shoulder tendon.This when Sonny had already entered the
ring with severe bursitis in both shoulders.

Why do you say that Liston quit in the second fight ? Please present your empirical
evidence that Ali's quick,unexpected punch had no effect on Liston,despite Sonny's
renowned granite chin.

So how did Ali know liston blinded him deliberately ? Angelo Dundee would have more
knowledge on these matters,in his role as a trainer.

Machen did lie.There was absolutely no evidence of his eyes being tampered with on footage
of the fight.He waited until the Ali fight to accuse Liston of blinding him.After the Liston
fight Machin moaned about injuring his arm.So yeah right ,the guy is only too happy
to let everybody know about his damaged arm ( can we even believe him about that ? )
but decides to stay quiet about being '' blinded ''.
Machin was lying,no doubt about it.

 

I think you'll find that the so-called '' Wild West '' had become quite tame
during Dempsey's time.

 

You are merely duplicating these absurd mistruths in different posts.
Please refer to the response that I composed and posted just
a moment ago.It deals with all your ridiculous nonsense.

 

I would suggest that street fighting is a pretty good grounding for boxing.After all you quoted Liston's
out-of-ring fights as part of his boxing education.

 

And so did Johansson did beat Patterson...Liston isn't the first and the only one.

Mike Tyson, did it faster against bigger and better guy.

I don't think he achieved any better than Tyson beating Spinks or Foreman beating Frazier.

 

Yeah won against bums and those losses were against any better and good man he faced means he's nothing more than a bum.
He's a bum by boxing record and because he was journeyman with full time job.

He was the bumest bum I ever know that someone lost against except David Jaco who is on the same level.

I have only one standard and that is what counts and what doesn't count.
Liston quit while Marciano never did, that's what I know and that's how people would remember these people.
Liston quit in both Ali fights, I know it's tough for you to swallow but it is true.
He quit because he was getting beaten badly by Clay and his aura was destoyed like Marciano predicted.

It was not a punch that would KO anyone especially Liston.
Everyone knows that he quit there too and didn't want to get up because he didn't want to get beaten again.
And Liston chin was solid but not granite since Martin who was a LHW was able to one punch KO him.

Ali knew better, he felt blinded and he met the man who blinded him perhaos he said it in the interview that iwas dirty tactic used by Liston's corner.

Ali never changed his opinion no matter what Dundee said.

Machen is not liar perhaps Machen challenged Liston again but Liston declines.

Machen was just showing that Liston used dirty tactics and that is not that tough.
If Machen had good arm and if he wasn't blinded, he would maybe even beat Liston.

 

You forgott that Wild west existed even in late 19th century and that was very dangerous place to live even in Dempsey's time.

 

I quoted prison amateur fights.

Liston fought because he was a thug and Dempsey fought to survive, there's big difference.

 

Again,I repeat Jack Dempsey would have gained as much practical experience of fighting before
his official boxing career as Liston did.
As for Liston being a thug again I repeat that we are not discussing whether boxers are saints
or sinners.

 

No the so-called '' wild west '' ceased to exist by the time Jack Dempsey was growing up.
Do you really think that living in the USA's inner cities was a cosy existance,for black people ?