Where do you rate Andre Ward all time p4p? And at 168?

Who are you accusing of bias there Herol? Nobody's said they rate Calzaghe higher than Ward at LHW.

 

only clowns.

i see noclowns. frankly hasnt posted here yet.

 

Ward was a great for his era. But in the context of all of boxing, his P4P rating is not worth mentioning. He might be the #2 SMW. If you see Jones counting as a SMW, then Ward is #3 SMW behind Zaggers and RJJ. A division that has pretty much always sucked relative to the glamour divisions. His best "wins" are over Kovalev and can be highly disputed.

 

fixed it

 

Great point. If Greb is SMW, then Ward could well be in 4th spot. Some would say Toney or Collins could be ahead of him at SMW too.

 

A host of good wins? He has Froch, Kessler, (who Calzaghe beat first), weight drained Dawson and slightly past prime Abraham, i'd hardly call that a host of good wins.

 

The only thing that makes Ward's resume better is his "wins" over Kovelav at 175 but the first one was one of the biggest gifts ever and the second was a controversial stoppage.

 

I also think Eubank is an underrated win for Joe.

 

At SMW I would have him above Toney as Toney didnt have many big SMW wins but below Collins. Collins scored arguably the best SMW win ever when he beat Eubank and then beat Eubank again. They are 2 wins that I think were greater than any other SMW win I can recall. He then had 2 good wins over Benn. People try and say Benn was shot or whatever but Benn had only lost his title by debatable SD in his previous fight to a future 2 time champ. I think many would have favoured Benn over Nardiello WBC champ when he was facing Collins.
The 2 Eubank wins were greater wins than the wins over the faded versions of Kessler and Froch. The 2 Benn wins I feel were greater than the Dawson and Abraham wins and Sellier similar to the Bika win at the time of the fight.
So the 2 Eubank and 2 Benn fights as well as the Sellier win

 

Very much so. It was a very good win

 

I dont really see that. Big wins often come from beating an undefeated fighter and Kovalev wasnt very much different to Calzaghes over Kessler.
What was Kovalevs big win? Arguably beating Hopkins years after Calzaghe

 

Waiting for this to be answered

Forget Calzaghe as his resume is clearly superior to any other SMW but below Calzaghe you have fighters like Ottke, Eubank, Collins who I think have greater resumes at SMW than Ward also. Not even complete resumes for Eubank and Ottke below.

Explain how you think Ward has a greater SMW resume than Eubank -

- Rocchigiani undefeated relinquished IBF champ
- Benn draw with WBC champ
- Malinga future 2 time SMW champ
- Holmes a former SMW champ and world rated
- Watson
- Jarvis
- Essett
- Close
- Wharton


Or Ottke
- Mitchell WBA SMW champ and 2 time SMW champ
- Brewer IBF SMW champ
- Reid former SMW champ and world rated
- Mundine future 2 time SMW champ
- Johnson who gave Froch problems 12 years later when faded
- Markussen
- Larsen
- Branco
- Starie


Collins
- Eubank see above
- Eubank again
- Benn
- Benn again
- Sellier


To give a few examples. Problem is, many will comment and dont know the division and didnt watch it back then and although they dont know or werent old enough to watch, will still foolishly give out their opinions

 

You just called Dawson 'weight drained ' , but Eubank came down from 175 on two weeks notice was was gassed out for the majority of the fight.

That win isn't any better than the Dawson win , but at least Dawson was prime and had a full camp. Eubank was shot and was no longer able to pull the trigger even in the Steve Collins fights two years earlier.

 

It was totally different, Calzaghe beat Kessler without controversy whereas Ward need the biggest birthday present of his life in the first Kov and got questionable stoppage in the second.

 

Yeah I agree with that part.
I meant the taking the 0 part, but I dont disagree with what you written