where do you rate calzaghe among top british fighters?

Come on mate - give him the credit he deserves.

This was UNDEFEATED Lacy and Kessler in their PRIME and the UK Bookmakers always have the Brit as favourite in close fights due to the volume of money.

Most people thought Lacy was going to walk through him at the time FFS

 

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/lacy-vs-calzaghe-pundits-picks.584162/

Thread a while back on Calzaghe-Lacy predictions. There was a definitely a geographical split; Americans overrated Lacy and underrated Calzaghe. Very few US experts predicted a Calzaghe win.

There was more of a split over here. Bunce, Woodhall, Benn, Kessler, Woods, Maloney all picked Calzaghe. People knew how talented he was, and were not as convinced about Lacy's credentials.

 

I'm not trying to discredit him. Just pointing out that Joe was a favourite over Kessler and the Lacy fight was seen as pretty even.

They were brilliant performances but let's not overdo them by pretending Joe was some rank outsider who nobody thought had a chance. I'd imagine the vast majority of observers thought he'd beat Kessler and a bigger number than some seem to think had him beating Lacy.

 

The reality at the time was that the outcome of both fights was very uncertain and it would have been no surprise to most people if the results were reversed in both fights.

Real 50/50 fights unlike Tony Dosh PPV v all those puddings except old Wlad.

 

The outcome was uncertain, but the issue for me is that wasn't the case for most of Calzaghe's career and that wasn't to do with available opponents.

It's interesting to look back at reports, forum posts and suchlike from the time. There were repeated, serious suggestions about Joe fighting Froch, Dawson, a far younger Hopkins, Pavlik, Taylor, Johnson, Beyer, Tarver, Woods. I'm not saying they're all elite level, although some obviously are. But they're all better than Evans Ashira and co.

 

I was at that Evans Ashira fight in Cardiff where Joe broke his hand in the early rounds. On the undercard was Kell Brook, Amir Khan, Nathan Cleverley, Kerry Hope and even Tony Booth fighting a Heavyweight!! Still remember standing close to Don King and being surprised at what a big man he was.

Those were the glory days for Warden.

 

How he dealt with Hopkins was brilliant, outboxing him and managing to avoid some ridiculous attempts to headbutt him.

The overall performances that Joe put in against Lacey and Kessler were nothing short of phenomenal. In a sport often obsessed with the big KO it was great to see someone box so beautifully in such big fights.

Imagine if any of the top fighters from around that era had to adapt their style and sacrifice a lot of their power to continue fighting, Froch would have been f**ked for starters.

 

At the end of the day he was a winner - hit him once he'd hit you twice. I'd like like to think he would've beaten the better opponents if they was put in front of him but we'll never know. As for odds I got 2-1 on him to beat beat Lacey on points - he was underdog.

 

Without wishing to repeat a point a guy being 2/1 to win on points hardly makes him a massive underdog. As shown in the articles above Joe was a 6/4 shot to beat Lacy which means he was a very slight outsider and loads of domestic observers picked him to win. I've just had a check on Oddschecker and 6/4 is the same price you can get on Khan to beat Brook, Joyce to beat Ortiz and Price to beat Allen, none of which seem like hopeless mismatches.

Calzaghe's performance against Lacy was brilliant enough without having to pretend that nobody gave him a chance. The bookies had it a very close fight and loads picked him to win. Just because the American pundits had massively overrated their man didn't mean Lacy was any good.

In hindsight the Kessler win was far better in my opinion. Still a convincing win and Kessler was the real deal. I don't buy the whole 'Joe broke Lacy' thing; I just think Lacy was grossly overrated.

 

Mate I didn't say he was a massive underdog and I completely agree Jeff Lacy was massively overrated.
I'm just saying when I put the bet on Lacy was favourite.

 

And again yeah his win over Kessler was far more admirable- but what I'm saying is he was favourite against Kessler - against lacy (and wrongly so) he wasn't.

 

Maybe Lacy wasn't overrated and simply like many examples in the past - never the same fighter after a serious beating.

That fight may have took everything out of him mentally and he endured so much punishment that he would never be the same physically again.

Fighters that don't end up in comas also suffer permanent damage in the ring.

 

I see where you're coming from mate and to be honest it's something I've never considered - but I still believe he just wasn't that good.

 

Yeah, I'm more on this side of the argument than the idea that Calzaghe somehow took something away from a top drawer fighter. One thing you don't really often hear is that whilst it was seen as the big step up for Calzaghe the same applies for Lacy. If he'd gone into the fight having beaten several of the higher regarded operators in and around super middle at the time, (not necessarily all world beaters but the likes of Andrade, Beyer, Kessler obviously, even the likes of Mundine and Green) then I think that argument could hold weight; as it is a fairly old Robin Reid was probably his best win.

 

Fair enough mate - we all have different opinion.

Some examples in the UK mate:

James Degale/George Groves - never the same fighters after shoulder injuries.
Ricky Burns - about 10% of the fighter since he broke his jaw against Ray Beltran. Awful to watch him fighting now with such limitations.
David Price - one TT KO and he totally fell apart mentally.
Alex Arthur - the Gomez fight took 50% of his potential away in one fight.

Not like football where players can have a stinker in one game and play a blinder in the next.

There are times when people simply never recover from a bad night in boxing whether physically or mentally.

We will never know about Lacy but we do know before the fight that people thought he was the real deal.