Where do you rate Haye in the list of Wlad's best wins

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Big Ukrainian, May 11, 2018.

  1. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Sam Peter, Chris Byrd, Ibragimov, Povetkin, Chagaev, Haye, Brewster, Pulev, Thompson, McCline, Shulz and others.

    Where do you rank Haye in the list of Wlad's best wins?

    Who would you rank higher and why?
     
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  2. janitor

    janitor Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think that Byrd and Povetkin are the top two.

    Haye and Chagaev make up the next tier.
     
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  3. Webbiano

    Webbiano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Top 5. Janitor is pretty much spot on, but it's mighty tempting to add Ibragimov into that second tier. It's a shame he didn't attempt any sort of comeback after his one sided beating to Wlad. Jennings and Pulev still have the potential to overtake Haye depending on how their next few fights pan out.
     
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  4. Cecil

    Cecil Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I don’t think it’s that great a win, Haye wasn’t that much at heavyweight.
     
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  5. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 Officer Full Member

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    Haye could punch. He stopped John Ruiz and took valuevs WBA title

    He also knocked out the very durable Derek Chisora in 5
     
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  6. rski

    rski Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It's a decent win cause Haye was fast, powerful and althletic, Wlad neutralised the smaller man like he should have, although it would have been nice if the win was more decisive. Haye even wobbled him a couple of times so it's not like he didn't pose a threat. Haye as a heavy was A bit underwhelming but he blasted a couple of guys out, destroyed chisora who took vitali 12. I just think Haye couldn't finish what he started at heavyweight due to a short career, he might have had a good run if he shoulder didn't give out, which would have added value to wlads win. The Bellew loses shouldn't even come in to it, Haye lost his athletic gifts by this point.
     
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  7. janitor

    janitor Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    They are going nowhere!
     
  8. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Number two behind Povetkin. I think Haye was a very good heavyweight at the time he fought Wlad, even if he didn't have the big fights we wanted. He also had the potential to beat Wlad whearas guys like Byrd and Iggy had no chance
     
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  9. janitor

    janitor Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    My take on Haye:

    At cruiser weight he was incredible, and frankly seemed wasted on the division.

    Both myself and McGrain predicted that he might beat Wladamir Klitschko (please don't ban me for revealing this)!

    Once he stepped up to heavyweight, a lot of illusions were shattered.

    The gaps in his game quickly became apparent, and he soon started trying to advance his career based on notoriety, rater than actual merit!

    He set up a series of grudge matches, with sub par opposition, in order to generate interest.

    He reached the end of the road, when one of them beat him, and then repeated the feat.

    I still wish him well in his retirement.

    He was the best cruiser weight since Holyfield, at least until tomorrow (oh sh1t it is canceled, I guess he gets a stay of execution).
     
  10. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I still don't know how people think he was "incredible" even at cruiserweight.

    Don't get me wrong, I followed his career since he was an amateur and had high hopes for him all the way. I was telling people he could beat Audley Harrison way back in 2004, and very few people on these forums agreed.
    Up to about 2009 I still had some hopes for him.

    But he never really delivered.
    He was just another puncher, lacking in skills at the highest level. He didn't have the chin to take the risks needed with his limitations.

    Dereck Chisora is his best win at heavyweight. Chisora was just a plodder.

    I'd rate Haye behind Povetkin, Byrd, Ibragimov, Chagaev, Pulev.

    maybe he's on the same level as Thompson, Brock, Chambers, Peter.
     
  11. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Based on what ?

    KOing Mormeck, a multi belt holder but one who was also KO'd quite badly by O'Neill Bell a couple of fights earlier.
    KOing Enzo Maccharelli, who I wouldn't rate as an impressive cruiserweight.
    And a KO win over Giacobbe Fragomeni at European title level ...

    These aren't bad wins at all relative to what's expected at cruiserwight, but that's a very thin win resume.

    Plus a TKO LOSS to Carl Thompson.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
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  12. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The problem with cruiserweights is most of them have been so forgettable.
    David Haye is remembered because of all his antics at heavyweight and his success as a celebrity. He's famous.

    But as a cruiserweight, I can't see how he could be rated by knowledgeable boxing people above Gomez, just for one example.
     
  13. janitor

    janitor Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If not him then who?
     
  14. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    There are a number of fighters who could be put ahead of Haye.
    For example, Gomez, Hernandez, Wamba, Deleon
    Even Johnny Nelson, as terminally boring as he was.
     
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  15. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I don't get it either. Haye wasn't a bad cruiserweight, but he didn't stick around long enough to make his name at that weight, and wasn't exactly hugely dominant even then (he was dropped by Mormeck in a war, struggled with Fragomeni and Mock, and lost to Thompson). Enzo, of course, was subsequently exposed as a complete bust at the top level.

    What then elevates Haye above any other semi-decent champ at CW like Gomez, Hernandez, Drodz, Wlodarczyk, Adamek or even Mormeck himself? The number of belts he won? That seems to be the line most people who support that argument use. I prefer quality wins and successful defences over trinkets personally, and Haye is noticeably lacking in both categories.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
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