Where Do You Rate Holyfield?

Good morning Fergy. Hope you had a good Easter,mate.

Yes,number 12 sounds pretty accurate on the all time great heavy list for Evander. A tough opponent for anyone who ever held the heavyweight crown. And the greatest ever Cruiserweight.

 

I rank him lower than most at #15, as dominance counts highly for me.

1. Louis
2. Ali
3. Holmes
4. Lewis
5. Marciano
6. Johnson
7. Wlad
8. Jeffries
9. Liston
10. Tyson
11. Foreman
12. Frazier
13. Wills
14. Dempsey
15. Holyfield

I'm aware I rank Jeffries and Wills higher, whilst Foreman, Frazier and Holyfield, lower than most.

 

I think he gets a little underrated as a Heavyweight these days. Very few seem to give him a top ten berth, but I could still see him just squeezing in there.

I appreciate that he never dominated or cleaned out the division in his best years, but he was competing in probably the second-strongest era ever for the Heavies and the competition he was consistently facing knocks that of many of the greats placed above him into a cocked hat. There are Heavyweights out there with statistically better records, but who I don't think are in his class based on talent, ability or head-to-heads across the eras (Dempsey and Marciano, for example).

Admittedly, that might be the bias talking because Holyfield is one of my favourite fighters of all time to binge watch.

 

It's also surprising to see Holmes ranked above Lewis.

As for Holyfield, I have him in my top 10 - I rate him higher than Tyson.

 

That would be Usyk though.

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It all comes down to criteria.

Lewis & Holmes could be ranked either way and I'd have no problem with it. Lewis probably has the higher quality win resume, but Holmes longer reign (if you consider him the man from Norton onwards, as I do) and never losing in his prime, just edge it for me.

Holyfield vs Tyson especially comes down to criteria. Holyfield has better longevity and was the better of the 2 for the longer period of time, despite being 4 years older. However, Tyson was the better & more dominant at his absolute peak. It comes down to how much you value how good a fighter was at their peak vs the general level they maintained throughout their career.

 

He's on that 'elite' tier of all-time greats who are pretty much revered as Gods of the sport. Up there with names like Duran, Robinson Ali and Hagler. He was a 37 year-old giving away almost 25 pounds when he pushed Lennox Lewis to the brink in their rematch. That's greatness.

 

Whilst I don't rank him up with SRR or Duran, he ranks higher p4p than all the fighters I list above him at HW, apart from Louis and Ali, imo.

 

I haven't done a "top 10 ATG HW" for a while. But I believe I usually plot Holyfield in at around the 6-9 spot.

 

Nicely put, mate.

 

H2h people are entitled to their opinions, and I understand that for some his HGH use lowers his ranking. Because of his size disadvantage and not being a huge puncher I understand the feeling that he would struggle against a lot of the super heavies. But h2h against anyone under 240 is another story.

For resume and greatness, I have him at number 3 or 4. I think he has a legitimate argument to be ranked above Holmes due to having been Undisputed, having recaptured the title several times and opposition beaten.

For making exciting fights, I have him number 1. He's also my favorite hw champ largely because of that fact.

 

I rank Holyfield above Holmes p4p, factoring in their entire respective careers, but have a difficult time seeing it at HW, though again, I accept it comes down to criteria.

Holmes was 69-6 at HW, including 48-0 up until age 35. One's perspective on when, if at all, he became lineal champ, is subjective, but I consider him the man at HW from Norton onwards, in which case he went 21-0 during a 7-year reign, ending up 21-3 in world HW title fights (not inlcuding his fight for a strap vs McCall, which clearly wasn't for the title). He never lost in his prime, imo.

Holyfield was 28-10-2 at HW, including the gift draw vs Lewis. On fair scorecards he went 1-4 vs the best 2 x HWs he faced. According to my notes he went 5-3-1 in lineal HW world title fights and was 18-3 at HW overall before facing Lewis age 36, and it's only those 3 losses, to Bowe x 2 and Moorer, that I consider to be prime losses.

It could be argued that Holyfield fought in a stronger era than Holmes, and that's an argument I have sympathy for, but Holmes was substantially more dominant in his era than Evander was in his (at HW).

 

He makes my top ten.