Where do you rate Jack Dempsey and why?

How in any possible way is Dempsey a stronger puncher than Marciano?

Dempsey himself said Marciano was the hardest hitting HW champion because he could take you out with 1 punch. How many times did Dempsey KO a guy with 1 punch, let alone with a barrage of punches with a guy not getting up? Don't even dare mention Sharkey. Marciano has more 1 punch KO's over rated fighters than 95% of HWs.

Faded or not (Really somewhat debatable) Rocky's comp blows Dempsey out of the water. What great slugger did Dempsey beat? How in any way was Rex Layne worse than Firpo? What win does Firpo have to compare to Walcott? A 40 year old shot Williard? Dempsey himself said Layne was the most promising HW champ and many papers compared Layne to Dempsey. Dempsey may have beaten bigger fighters but certainly didn't beat better fighters.

Willis has a far better resume than Dempsey. He's got a winning series against Langford, and wins against Jeanney and Mcvey.

 

Top 15 HW overall

9th based on h2h

 

What's the rest of your H2H list look like out of curiosity?

 

I rate Dempsey #4 behind marciano, ali and joe louis. People who knock the dempsey legacy knock him with hindsight only. To real boxing people of the day dempsey really was the real McCoy and it is difficult to argue with that. people harp on about wills and greb now but back then dempsey was seen as in a class of his own. I wish both did get to fight dempsey, statistically you can make a case for both being a match for dempsey nowadays but realistically at the time fans believed neither should be given any greater chance than firpo, gibbons or carpentier, and they were probably right. Who are we to think we know any better than those who saw and listened to gym people and fighters who knew first hand?

 

Wills best wins are over famous names (Langford and McVey), well past their best who actually beat him the first few times they met until they just got too old, or wins over men by decision that were kod by his contemporise such as Tunney and Dempsey.
Putting things into perspective Bill Tate (a mere sparring partner to Dempsey) who had a record of 34-28-5 actually fought Wills to a draw (within Dempsey’s peak) for the “coloured championship” so both claimed that title. Their title fight had been fought in front of 5,000 fans in a former “street car barn”.
At the same time exciting contender Luis Firpo was the biggest draw in boxing outside of Dempsey. Firpo drew 85,000 crowds in new York and New jersey twice before fighting for the title. Firpo knocked out Jess Willard and Bill Brennan two fighters who only Dempsey had ever knocked out. But When wills got his hands on firpo (after Dempsey had ruined him) he blew it. Nat Fleischer called it a boring dreary affair. It was a no decision. How does that compare to what Dempsey did to Firpo?

 

I rate him in my top 5-6, behind, Louis,Ali,Marciano....Dempsey was the best of his day and IMO better than anyone before him and a few after him until Louis

...Jack gets overlooked but he was Mike Tyson before Tyson but Jack got off the floor to win

...as far as Wills he should not be blamed other Champs have missed more than one challenge and it is overlooked and I think Dempsey had the style to handle Wills at anytime. I just think he was better than Wills

Dempsey was not a hard a hitter with a single punch as Marciano and he was not the complete combination puncher as Louis but he was a relentless 2-fisted Banger and had good hand speed and good feet coming forward

He was all ready rusty as the tin man when he took on Tunney but the LONG-Count sequence and well as the rusty left to the lower belly and quick-short left hook to KO Sharkey gives you a glimpse of what JD was all about in his prime

 

A fair point. wills dominated an earlier era in a parallel universe. I don’t have an agenda, im saying big bill Tate was joint black heavyweight champ during Dempsey’s reign. When wills fought firpo he blew it and there is no way “fight people” of the day would rate wills’s chances. Peak for peak it’s a good match that I wished happened, however, the two peaks were too far apart and everyone knew it.

 

I'm with janitor, Choclab and Bummy on this - I've been torn apart about this on many occassions (admittedly only by the reverse rascism crowd and their good friends the revisionist historians) but Jack Dempsey is my Number 2 - second only to the late great Rocky Marciano

 

wills and Joe Jeanette had 3 fights the 1st is a draw when Jeanette is 34,the 2nd is a win for Wills but Jeanette is all but 35,their last fight is also a win for Wills but Jeanette is 40.
when wills was a seasoned peak fighter jeanette, mcvea and langford were old. when he was any younger mcvea and langford had the advantage and beat wills just as pehaps they may have beat a less than fully groomed dempsey in 1916. the point is fans in 1919 knew dempsey would beat all the old guys too.

 

My basis for ranking him as a harder, more explosive puncher is simple. He holds the 1RKO HW record. Or is it perhaps more appropriate to say a more aggressive finisher? Marciano was typically slower to KO an opponent from my estimation at any rate.

I'm not saying that Marciano didn't beat a solid quality of fighter. I am saying that I think Dempsey would have a better chance against modern size HW fighters than Marciano did. In terms of comp, i agree that Rocky faced a higher quality of fighter than Jack did. However, Jack performed so impressively at his short peak that I can't help but think that for his title run, he was a nearly invincible force.

What exactly happened with Wills-Firpo? This seems to be the deciding fight that I think the people of his day like Langford seem to use to hedge his chances against Dempsey.

 

Dempsey was definitely a better finisher. No doubt one of the great finishers and a more explosive fighter than Marciano. I've actually criticized Marciano's accuracy and finishing abilities. He had Charles in round 6 and 10 I believe but couldn't finish him. You can't really claim Dempsey has a harder puncher because of a 1RKO record. That's hardly inductive.

Fair enough, and this is generally accepted due to the explosive nature of Dempsey. However, hardly anyone rates Dempsey above Marciano because his resume/record just don't match Rocky's. I don't get how you don't get how most rate Marciano ahead. Maybe people factor H2H less than you do; I know some don't whatsoever as for as these lists go. While Dempsey is very impressive at times we do have to consider who he's impressive against. Dempsey had his fair share of mediocre performances during his title reign and was inconsistent later in his reign (Inactivity help explains that).