Where does Evander Holyfield rank among all time great Heavyweights?

etQUOTE="Ra's Al-Ghul, post: 18223375, member: 108619"]No Corbett was still regarded as champion until Fitzsimmons defeated him (Maher was just some kind of interims champion); so he wasn't retired, because he never gave up his title. He was already rated high at the begin of his professional career because of his amateur background (in the Olympic Club among others); like some kickboxers in female boxing without boxing fights (Kim Messner fought against Ivone Trevino in her first professional boxing bout for the world championship), particular from East-Asia. As boxing was in the 19. century still in the children-shoes, you didn't need much experience to be ranked up there. Therfore was it similar to Joey Choyinsky, who I rank above Joe Frazier (and far higher than Norton), while Corbett didn't have a lot more fights than him. So it was at equal levels. Corbett also fought himself over sixty rounds against Jackson ( 61 - 65). Mitchel fought already before against Sullivan for the title.

The addiction of Sullivan couln't have been so hard, as he lived on for another around thirty year, often gave comments about the current boxers and even wrote some articles about boxing. He was also at the time of the Corbett fight the most feared man; he was Tyson plus Liston or Baer plus Foreman, before these were around. Last but not least was the defeat against Sharkey dubious too and he was in the second Jeffries fight competitive.[/QUOTE]

Corbett's first opponent of any note was Kilrain , prior to that he was an also ran. Choynsky was a novice ,these facts are irrefutable and indisputable. I see you did not admit to your mistake saying Mitchell fought 68 rds with Jackson,I knew you wouldn't.The idea that the Holmes v Mercer fight was somehow controversial comes out of Rasta G
Corbett actually got into the ring after the O Donnell v Maher fight and declared Maher the new champion.

Corbett actually helped to promote a fight billed for the title between O Donnell and Maher,when Maher beat Corbett's stable mate he duly entered the ring and proclaimed him the new champion! I would have thought anyone with any pretensions to a passing knowledge of the era would know this? Corbett's first opponent of any note was Kilrain, before that fight he was just one of the pack. Choynsky was a 3 fight novice These facts are irrefutable and undisputable. I see you didn't admit you made a mistake concerning Mitchell fighting Jackson, I didn't expect you would! Yes Mitchell had fought Sullivan for the title ,ELEVEN YEARS EARLIER! I asked you what was Mitchell's best win you did not reply I didn't seriously think you would.You are the only poster I have ever come across who thinks the Mercer v Holmes fight was controversial,even Mercer said he got a boxing lesson. As champion Corbett ducked Jackson and wouldn't meet Fitzsimmons until Fitz had ko'd Maher which rather put him in a sh*t or get off the pot situation,it was because Corbett had given Fitz such a run around regarding a title shot that Fitz resolved never to give him a return match. Your earlier post had so many untruths and mistakes in it there were too many to correct , bars after losing his title he was 59 and looked 70ut I've dealt with some of the more glaring ones. NB Sullivan died 25 years after losing his crown, he was 59 and looked 79, For the last ten years of his life he was tee- total.

ps Corbett was not competitve aginst Jeffries in their second fight,despite having oxygen administered to him between rounds it was a one- sided beat down.

• Corbett's seconds administered oxygen to him after each round.

• Gate receipts amounted to $62,340. The fighters received 70% of the gate, with 75% going to the winner and 25% to the loser.

• The Baltimore Morning Herald reported the following on August 15, 1903:

"James J. Jeffries, champion heavyweight of the world, played with Jim Corbett for nine rounds and a half tonight and then Corbett's seconds motioned Referee Graney to stop the fight in order to save their man from needless punishment. The end came shortly after the beginning of the tenth round, when Jeffries planted one of his terrific left swings on Corbett's stomach. The man who conquered John L. Sullivan then dropped to the floor in agony, and the memorable scene at Carson City, when Bob Fitzsimmons landed his solar plexus blow, was almost duplicated. This time, however, Corbett struggled to his feet and again faced his gigantic adversary. With hardly a moment's hesitation, Jeffries swung his right and again landed on Corbett's stomach. Jim dropped to the floor, and then it was that Tommy Ryan, seeing that it was all over, motioned to Referee Graney to stop the punishment. "
You really need to stop making these silly unfounded statements.

 

Mitchell and Jackson never fought each other.Let that sink in!

Corbett relinquished his title and announced the winner of O Donnell and Maher would be given his crown which he did climbing into the ring after the fight.
"Nov 11 -Corbett retired (only to return later); He presented his title to Peter Maher"
Cyber Zone
In1892 the standout challenger for Corbett's title was Peter Jackson ,whom that year ko'd another top challenger Frank Slavin.Corbett would only defend against Jackson in the Deep South.where Jackson was convinced he would not get a square deal and that his life would be in danger .

Other excellent challengers that Corbett ignored were Joe Goddard who kod Choynsky twice in1891,kod Maher in1892 and had drawn with Jackson in1890.

Joe Choynsky in1892 ko'd George Godfrey and beat Denver Ed Smith.
When champion Corbett would not entertain either Goddard or Choynsky ,both lethal punchers.
The other man that Corbett sidestepped until his ko over Maher made it impossible to ignore him any longer was Fitzsimmons who ,when Corbett finally defended against him had not lost a fight in 7 years.

ps The Jackson v Corbett fight was ruled a No Contest, not a draw.

The underlined is typical RastaGoon nonsense
NB.
Fitzsimmons was born on 26th May 1863
Corbett was born 1st Sept 1866. Therefore Fitzsimmons was 3 years the older man.


I'll say this for you ,you are consistant,consistantly WRONG!lol

 

5QUOTE="Ra's Al-Ghul, post: 18224056, member: 108619"]Nonsense, he fought Jackson several year before (which ended draw) and Charly Mitchel was far more a established heavyweight than Robert Fitzsimmons at that time (as the later one just became world champion in Middleweight when), while the first one had not only a bigger size but also was heavier than Fitzsimmons in 1894 (while Jackson was when almost dead and not very active as well). Fitzsimmons wasn't a more legitim challenger than Mitchel, at least when it goes for their weights (while "Genetleman Jim" himself weighted barely 85 - 90 kilos).

By the way you can't have both way; you have to decide: Either was Corbett inactive as champion or he was retired (a retired boxer rarely ever box).[/QUOTE]
He ducked Jackson's challenge when he was champion this is a fact. Mitchell was 5'9" and weighed between 150/165lbs.

Fitz was 5'11.5" ,and scaled between 160 /172lbs.
ps Corbett was 19lbs heavier than Mitchell.
Mitchell scaled 150lbs when he challenged the 190lbs Sullivan.

He was 5 feet 9 inches to Fitz's5 feet eleven and a half inches.
There is no way to argue with a cretin.

When Corbett won the title in1892, Fitzsimmons had not lost a fight in7 years!

I asked you what as Mitchell's best win you didn't reply is that because he didn't have any?

 

He fought Sullivan11 years before he challenged Corbett. he was past it! Mitchell could not ever have been American Champion because he was an Englishman! There really is no point continuing this, you obviously have mental health issues.Go and bore some one else.

 

this is not a reply to the issue.

 

Yeah sure lol.

 

No need to comment on this, it amply demonstrates what you are about! F*cking Loony Tunes!lol

 

first bowe fight was not holyfield at his best and prime tyson does not beat holyfield

 

depending on my mood, sometimes just inside the top 10 and other times inside the top 15. I dont hold his waaaaay past prime fights against him or any other fighter. He was a joy to watch.

 

number 6 for me . id pick ali louis holmes peak tyson and foreman to beat him .but id pick him over frazier liston lewis and marciano prime for prime .

 

But this is not in any way related to whether or not the decision of Holmes over Mercer was controversial, is it? Holmes won that fight, going away, regardless of what reasons Mercer may or may not have had for his performance.

 

Anywhere from 5 to 8.. Holyfield was a very skilled warrior I rank him high on my pound for pound as well based off not only his great heavyweight accomplishments but his great start at cruiserweight he displayed tremendous ability at this time in his career.

 

Top 10 for sure

Arguably top 5

 

Here are some of the ludicrously inaccurate statements you have made on this thread
On the Holmes v Mercer fight
This is your statement ."The decision against Mercer was very controversial".

It's total nonsense.
Here are the score cards117-112,117-111,115-113.
"He outslicked Ray Mercer over 12 rounds to win a convincing unanimous decision at the Convention Center."

Here is another false claim you made.

Regarding that Holmes win and his subsequent loss to Brian Nielson
Well he did, but it is questionable how much it was worth, due to he lost shortly afterwards against third-tier boxer Nielson, which possibly proved that he had no buisness to be in a world championship (against the undisputed title-holder) anymore.
He didnt lose to Nielson "shortly after".

Holmes beat Mercer on 7th Feb 1992.He lost to Nielson on 24th Jan 1997 That is five years later!

Here is another,made when you were trying to boost 165lbs 5'9" Charley Mitchell's credentials for his one sided blow out against Corbett.
Another concerning Choynski being as you state the top contender for 15 -20 years.

"Choyinsky was arguable the best contender at that time (besides Peter Jackson), for 15 - 20 years".


Being extremely generous to Choynski, he could only be considered as such between October 1892 when he had his first big win at heavyweight ,beating George Godfrey, until December 1902 when he beat Frank Childs, that makes 12 years and how viable he was as a title threat during that time is very debateable.

Another concerning the Haye v Mormeck fight.

"Mormeck was on all scorecards leading at the end".
No he wasn't here are the score cards.

• Judge: Alejandro Rochin 57-56

• Judge: Ray Hawkins 57-56

• Judge: Guillermo Perez Pineda 55-58

Holmes didn't earn his title shot against Holyfield.And neither did Cooper.

"just as didn't earn this Holmes nor Cooper a shot for the undispudit titles). "

Yes he did!
Holmes earned his title shot by convincingly outpointing number 5 rated Ray Mercer.
Bert Cooper was a late substitute.

There are loads more such as saying Corbett's win over a 20 years old 3 fight novice Choynski was a great win.
As champion Corbett fought the best challengers available.
He didn't, he ducked Jackson,Goddard,and for several years Ftzsimmons.

In summary ,you are a total joke, good for amusement value only.

 

So Larry's win over Mercer at 43 is questionable because he lost a fight 5 years later? He should have won Mercer's WBO title in that fight but it wasn't on the line
And 3 years on from that he came very close to winning the WBC belt from MaCall who won it by knocking out undefeated Lennox Lewis.