Where does Evander Holyfield rank as a HW ATG

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by andrewa1, Apr 22, 2016.


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  1. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I really like and respect all ATG's, but if there is one I dislike most or have a bias against, I'd freely admit it's Evander. To me, he had a bad combination of personal self righteousness mixed with blatant steroid abuse mixed with by far the worst and most egregious in ring cheating of any ATG ever (the much undervalued, underreported headbutting). He should have been docked points for head buts against Tyson, and should without a doubt have been dq'd against Rahman. Add into that the fact that he was usually a big beneficiary of questionable decisions. I had him losing to Bowe in their second fight, losing his win over Ruiz, losing the TD to Rahman, and of course, he got the "draw" against Lewis in probably the most infamous robbery in HW history. Even the one decision he was "robbed" in, against Valuev, I thought was very overstated. No one did anything, Valuev was the aggressor and the champ, in such a bad fight that should be enough for the champ to win. Also, while he fought some great fights, even when losing, against ATG's, he was never consistent enough to be a "dominant" champ. The longest he could hold onto a belt was 3 real wins. He lost a lot to a lot of different fighters. One of the reasons there were so many ATG's of the era was because Holyfield wasn't good enough to be dominant, thus elevating fighters to ATG status who probably wouldn't have sniffed it in another era.

    All that bad stuff said, for whatever reason, he has more ATG wins and "draws" than almost anyone. The only 4 time HW champ. Quite possibly the greatest 6'3 and under H2H HW the division has ever seen. I rank him about #18.
     
    andrewa1, Apr 22, 2016
    andrewa1, Apr 22, 2016
    #1
  2. Robney

    Robney ᴻᴼ ᴸᴼᴻᴳᴲᴿ ᴲ۷ᴵᴸ Full Member

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    Although he was certainly one of the greatest HW's out there, there certainly should be a big * to his name and accompishments like you mentioned.
    Also, put a top HW in a weak WBA belt carrousel and he's bound to be an x time champion.

    Though, I'd say he's easily top 15. Certainly beause we don't know how many bigtime juicers there actually were in his day. Also because he was the only guy I ever saw to perform a headbutt/lowblow/kidney shot combo late in his career, and without the referee seeing/reprimanding it. That's a feat on its own.
     
    Robney, Apr 22, 2016
    Robney, Apr 22, 2016
    #2
  3. northpaw

    northpaw Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    top 30ish as a HW champion, he was a popular warrior, but as heavyweight champ was quit inconsistent. He'd lose then bounce back, but would suffer another loss after that.

    top 30 HW has no bearing on CW however, he was the best ever.
     
    northpaw, Apr 22, 2016
    northpaw, Apr 22, 2016
    #3
  4. Staminakills

    Staminakills Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I have holy in my top 5, along with LL,Ali and keeping my #1,spot warm for AJ..

    Holy and LL were far and away the greatest hw of their respected era. Both would be the best of any respected era.

    How on earth can you have him at #18 ****ing eighteenth. I dont know 10 that could compare h2h never mind better career accomplishments.

    This is a lost thread
     
    Staminakills, Apr 22, 2016
    Staminakills, Apr 22, 2016
    #4
  5. Staminakills

    Staminakills Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    But this board thinks you're greatee when making comebacks, and holy was the king of the comeback, many successful comebacks.

    Are you rating career accomplishments wise, h2h or resume wise ? Should be a mixture of all and holy had a great career in alm those aspects individually and certainly combined
     
    Staminakills, Apr 22, 2016
    Staminakills, Apr 22, 2016
    #5
  6. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Agree with Andrew. While he was a great fighter and a great fighter to watch, the simple fact is that he lot a hell of a lot to be top ten. Top 15 more likely. If you were talking a HW P4P basis, then yeah, he'd be top 10.
     
    BCS8, Apr 22, 2016
    BCS8, Apr 22, 2016
    #6
  7. Zakman

    Zakman ESB's Chinchecker Full Member

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    Top ten no question. Greatest HW since Holmes, very underrated by many people. I rate him at #7
     
    Zakman, Apr 22, 2016
    Zakman, Apr 22, 2016
    #7
  8. theanatolian

    theanatolian Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Top10 very easily.
     
    theanatolian, Apr 22, 2016
    theanatolian, Apr 22, 2016
    #8
  9. SmackDaBum

    SmackDaBum TKO7 banned Full Member

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    Wlad. Lewis. Ali. Holyfield. Tyson. Louis. Marciano. Foreman. Holmes. Vitali.

    Top 10 imo.
     
    SmackDaBum, Apr 22, 2016
    SmackDaBum, Apr 22, 2016
    #9
  10. madballster

    madballster Loyal Member Full Member

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    Somewhere 12-18 for me. He had lots of ups and downs, a tad too many losses on his HW resume. What speaks for him is he didn't duck anyone.
     
    madballster, Apr 22, 2016
    madballster, Apr 22, 2016
    #10
  11. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

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    Not seeing it...He was 36-4-1 after the Lewis fights...2 of the guys he lost to, Moorer and Bowe, he beat in rematches...I don't think it's fair to take his later career into accout..

    I have him at number 9.
     
    Pugilist_Spec, Apr 22, 2016
    Pugilist_Spec, Apr 22, 2016
    #11
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  12. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    This. Holy had guts that nobody can deny. He was just a little small for some of the monsters that he fought.
     
    BCS8, Apr 22, 2016
    BCS8, Apr 22, 2016
    #12
  13. Dementia Pugulistica

    Dementia Pugulistica Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Always seemed a bit overrated to me. He's got a great HW resume, ignoring all the losses near the end that is. Falls maybe somewhere in the top 15 - 20 for me.
     
    Dementia Pugulistica, Apr 22, 2016
    Dementia Pugulistica, Apr 22, 2016
    #13
  14. getup

    getup Say Yeah! Full Member

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    great combo puncher in first title reign
    underated speed
    beat many different styles
    great chin
    hard to find a bigger ticker than the real deals
    beat more linear champs than anyone
    but for me it was the excitement and events evander was always in...from qwai(I know not a heavy)to his last fight...he was always in the excitement...I mean think of how many exciting moments this guy brought...one word for this fighter

    WARRIOR
     
    getup, Apr 22, 2016
    getup, Apr 22, 2016
    #14
  15. silencio

    silencio Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He was a warrior! Top ten for sure, for me in HW. Probably the standard in CW.
     
    silencio, Apr 22, 2016
    silencio, Apr 22, 2016
    #15
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