Where Does Hagler Rank..?

Without a doubt. He's a shoe in.

 

Of those I've seen, I would have him just behind Monzon and a bit ahead of Hopkins and Golovkin. I'm not sure what to do with Greb considering how many of his fights were above the middleweight limit. As far as Ray Robinson goes, I think welterweight Sugar is the best fighter in history but at middleweight he was too inconsistent to be at or near the top.

 

Absolutely has to be ranked in the all-time top 5.It's either Hagler or Monzon for no.1 all-time.

 

Hi there,Fergy. I would say Top 4 alongside SRR,Harry Greb and Carlos Monzon. I'm always changing my mind about the order in which I rate them but I never fail to stick to the same four names.

 

Number 3 all time for me, mate. Only Greb and Monzon ahead of him.

 

I would say nr.1 but the biggest names on his record are all smaller than him. But he did clean out his division so

 

Yes, easy top 5, possible No1 in my book.

 

Just the man I wanted to hear from when I saw this thread.

Could you give us your breakdown of each at/around 160? I greatly respect your research of fighters focusing on them at specific weights and would love to see how you have each of the three middleweight ‘horsemen of the apocqalypse’ — as I think most would agree they are a tier to themselves.

 

Oh Pat, you're far too kind.

As you asked using flattery, of course

Records at MW, allowing for a few lbs over for non title fights:

Greb

• Around 125-9-12 at the weight.
• Was 125-7-12 before losses to Tiger Flowers when Greb was mostly blind.
• Went on a 60-0-2 run during his prime.
• 4-2-1 in Lineal world MW contests.
• Reigned for 2.5-years.
• Key wins/newspaper decisions/series - M. Gibbons (1-1) 10-round NWS, T. Gibbons (1-1 at MW, 2-2 overall) 10-round NWS, Walker, Dillon (12-round NWS), Slattery, McTigue x 2, J. Smith (5-0-1), AcCoy (10-round NWS), Wilson x 2, Moore x 2 Houck x 3, McGoorty, Bartfield (2-1-1), KO Brennan x 3, Chip (2-1), Crouse, Ratner, Downey and Blackburn (6rd NWS).
• 5 x defeats in and around prime years, T.Gibbons aged 21, 10-round NWS (1-1 at the weight), Graves aged 21, Chip aged 22 10-round NWS avenged x 2 (2-1), M. Gibbons 6-round NWS avenged (1-1), Bartfield 10-round NWS avenged (2-1-1).

Monzon:

• Around 86-3-9 at the weight.
• Went 67-0-9 after 19th fight. I.e. unbeaten in final 76 x fights at the weight.
• Went 57-0-3 in final 60 fights, subsequently winning rematches against all 3 x fighters he drew with.
• Won more rounds in some of those draws, but officially scored draws based on South American scoring system.
• 15-0 in MW title fights.
• 7-year reign before retirement.
• No prime losses.
• Key wins - Bevenuti x 2, Griffiths x 2, Valdes x 2, Bouttier x 2, Briscoe (1-0-1), Napoles, Mundine, Licata, Gonna, Fernandez x 2 and Agilar x 3.

Hagler

• 60-3-2 at weight.
• Went 36-0-1 between Monore loss aged 22 and SRL loss a month shy of 33rd birthday in final fight.
• 13-1 in lineal title fights.
• 6.5-year reign.
• Key wins - Hearns, Minter, Antuofermo (1-0-1), Hamsho x 2, Mugabi, Roldan, Duran, Obelmejias x 2, Hart, Briscoe, Seales, Monroe (2-1), Sibson, Colbert and Finnegan x 2.
• Losses - Watts MD aged 21, Monroe aged 21 avenged x 2 (2-1) and MD vs SRL 1-month before 33rd birthday in final fight.

It's a clear 1. Greb; 2. Monzon; 3. Hagler by my criteria, but I appreciate others will have different criteria.

If you factor in newspaper reports in no decision fights, Greb has the highest quality and deepest win resume by a substantial margin. As in, it isn't even remotely close.

However, if either you ignore newspaper reports and/or need to see footage, then Monzon is your man, imo.

If you discount fighters that aren't on film and discount murderers, then Hagler edges out SRR and Hopkins, imo.

 

Top 10, but not top 5.

 

Regarding the flattery — and I hope you will take this in the humorous spirit with which it is intended — the top of your reply made me think of this, haha:

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Seriously, I think your at-or-around-the-weight breakdowns are some of the best research and most helpful posts that can be found on a forum that abounds with great info. I hold you in the highest regard.

 

Haha, definitely taken in that spirit, mate. You don't have to ask me nicely, but you did.

Thanks, Pat, much appreciated, though, said with sincerity, you're too kind.