Where does Harry Greb rank on an all time heavyweight list?

Harry actually challenged Firpo but couldnt get him into the ring. Tate and Godfrey werent really major factors in the division for different reasons. Tate because he was more of a journeyman and Godfrey because he was really on the periphery of contender status until Greb was in the twilight of his career. I think Greb would have fought Willard. There was some discussion of the bout taking place and it never really took off before Dempsey beat Willard. Willard was quoted several times as saying Greb was the only man that could beat Dempsey.

 

True enough. However, I felt the absence of power punching super heavyweights from Harry's record was notable enough to be addressed. (I have no doubt he beats Tate, and probably Firpo, whose power I suspect was somewhat overrated.) Greb-Fulton would have been interesting. Fulton stopped Langford at a time when Sam held the colored HW title, and Fred's glass jaw might not have let him down against a middleweight so much shorter with limited power. Fulton certainly didn't seem to duck too many others, so why evade Greb, except on the grounds that Harry was too small?

For these big heavyweights, Greb would have been a no-win proposition. Either they're beating up on a little man, failing to knock out the small opponent, or, horror of horrors, they actually wind up losing.

 

Bill Brennan was a big puncher. Tommy Gibbons was a real good puncher too, especially with a left hook to the liver.

 

Hya Duodenum, nice to post you again...It is true that Nat Fleischer rated Stanley Ketchel, the greatest middleweight of all time..Fleischer
idolized Ketchel who he saw in NY koing Phil Jack OBrien in 1909...
However in his Question Box column in an old Ring Mag,he was asked who was the best middleweight of all time, by a subscriber...Fleischers answer
was Harry Greb ! For what it's worth...b.b.

 

if a guy is competative at world class level, beat a top opponent who drew with a world champion -as well as being champion of his own country and can take a curent world champion 10 rounds he is no "peice of ****".

 

And Miske was no slouch either. When opponents get above a certain height though, reaching them for offensive purposes becomes more of an issue. Bill Tate, as severely limited as he was, managed to have some success against Langford. Even with Sam aging, there's no way Tate competes with Langford without an enormous height and reach advantage, and Fulton managed to beat Sam twice, even with his glass jaw. (If Langford could have reached him and connected solidly, Fred would have been gone.) Harry had a couple inches on Langford, but nowhere near the power.

It may very well be that the super heavyweight skyscrapers of his era avoided Greb as a can't win proposition. Whatever the case, the fact remains that we didn't get the opportunity to discover how Harry would have adjusted to and dealt with this sort of challenge. (At least Marciano dealt with 6'4" 220 pound Johnny Shkor, and we actually have footage of Marciano-Vingo, while Tunney has the 6'3" Martin Burke on his record.)

Loughran did beat Jack Sharkey, Max Baer and Jimmy Braddock (not yet a heavyweight, but still a taller opponent with longer arms), Steve Hamas, Campolo, Impellitiere, Schaaf, Risko, Stribling and others, and Moore's heavyweight record is staggering. Although we can forcefully claim Greb to have the best heavyweight resume of any middleweight champion, asserting the best heavyweight dossier of any lighter non heavyweight champion might be a stretch, and he didn't beat some of the modern sized monsters Loughran, Walker (6'4" 223 pound DeKuh) and Moore disposed of.

 

I think after four bouts and arguably not winning a single round against Greb Brennan was wondering why he fought him so many times too. I think it was probably $$$

 

Moir, Beckett, and Wells were ****.

 

These men were much bigger than Greb, though. Loughran could make 160 lbs in his teens, seems to have been at least a super-middleweight in his early twenties. As early as 1928 he began fighting more often than not above 180 lbs, and I think the last time he made 175 was against Braddock in 1929. He generally weighed in the 180's and 190's the rest of his career. His weight was 199 for Jack Renault in 1930.

Bottom line--Loughran grew into a heavyweight. So did Tunney, Moore, Charles, etc.

Greb was the same height and about the same weight as Gene Fullmer or Dick Tiger. Loughran was 5 11 1/2. Maxim 6' 1". Greb was 5' 8". He was at most a super-middleweight.

I have no problem with rating Loughran, and perhaps even Maxim, above Greb at heavy, although Maxim was much more erratic against the big fellows than Greb.

 

1. On Wills:

Ted Carroll in The Ring, May 1952, page 22

"When the Dempsey-Wills contest was at its height, Greb, 165 lbs, challenged the 210 Wills, and meant it. 'Let the winner get Dempsey,' dared Greb and no one doubts Harry would have battled the dreaded Brown Panther."

"The great middleweight tackled anybody, any size, any weight. He challenged Dempsey often, and meant it."

2. On Tate and Godfrey.

Godfrey seems to have come into the top heavyweight picture just after Greb faded some as a contender. Not certain if it is fair to drag him in as proving much about Harry.

Tate was a journeyman. In his "win" over Wills he was apparently ko'd in the first round, but the ref DQ'd Wills for hitting Tate after he had called "break."

3. Firpo.

When would Greb have fought him? Firpo had a relatively short career in the US, while Greb was busy with Tunney, Gibbons, Loughran, etc.

4. That said, the point is well taken. I don't think Greb fought a top heavyweight over 200 lbs, or even a journeyman of that size. I don't hold it against him. If he was going to fight two divisions up, he should pick his spots.

Greb did fight men as big as Dempsey, though.

 

"Bill Brennan was a big puncher."

Curiously, who was the best heavyweight Brennan ko'd?

 

Curiously. Who is the biggest heavyweight he fought and how much did the man weigh?

I will try to look this up on boxrec.

*came up with these weights:

Willie Meehan 1917--187
Willie Meehan 1919--198
Bob Roper 1920--182
Bartley Madden 1921--184

The heaviest listed is Al Benedict--210 lbs (with a record of 9-25)

No weights are given for Bill Brennan, as far as I could see, against Greb. Brennan generally fought in the 190's but occasionally carried more than 200 lbs.

Brennan would appear to be the biggest good, or fairly good, heavyweight Greb defeated.

Tunney, Gibbons, Loughran, Levinsky, Norfolk, and even Miske, appear to have fought Greb when they were lightheavies.

I would be interested if anyone can provide me with any better information.