Where does Oscar Valdez rank P4P currently?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Flo_Raiden, Feb 21, 2021 at 5:29 AM.

  1. ElCyclon

    ElCyclon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    15,320
    2,643
    Dec 2, 2012
    Valdez moved up one division and beat the consensus #1 guy there. Add that to his other accomplishments and he should in the very least have his foot in the door of most pfp lists.

    He just made the cut at #10 on my list.
     
    Greg Price99 likes this.
  2. hoopsman

    hoopsman Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,186
    281
    Jul 24, 2005
    I never thought Lomachenko vs Berchelt would be especially competitive. Berchelt excels against "rock em sock em robots."

    Lomachenko is too fast, too skillful, and too elusive. 116-112.
     
  3. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

    13,790
    6,812
    Apr 3, 2012
    Lomachenko and Bob might've been avoiding Berchelt so as not to get Salido'd.
     
  4. hoopsman

    hoopsman Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,186
    281
    Jul 24, 2005
    Makes sense......apart from the fact that Lomachenko moved up in weight and fought a bigger, faster, harder hitting fighter a decade his junior.
     
  5. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

    13,790
    6,812
    Apr 3, 2012
    Leo is a counterpuncher. Berchelt gets in your face and throws punches. We’ll never get the answers for why Lomachenko was fighting guys like Crolla and Jason Sosa instead of Berchelt and Vargas.
     
  6. hoopsman

    hoopsman Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,186
    281
    Jul 24, 2005
     
  7. hoopsman

    hoopsman Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,186
    281
    Jul 24, 2005
    Noneck,

    So we're back to pretending that Lomachenko didn't adjust *at all* in the second half of the Salido fight?

    Teo may not be the volume puncher that Berchelt is, but he's plenty aggressive.

    Do you know what else he is? Bigger, stronger, faster, a harder puncher, and a better boxer than Berchelt.

    But you're right-- I'm sure Lomachenko was more concerned about a guy who "gets in your face."
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021 at 1:46 PM
    Jpreisser likes this.
  8. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

    63,752
    12,728
    Jul 26, 2004
    Even though I disagree with your rankings... I think you make a solid case for your views, except when it comes to Crawford, and this statement especially.

    Yes... Crawford beat Brook better than Golovkin.

    That tends to be the case when you fight the same guy 4 years afterwards, and after hes had multiple face transplants and is half retired.

    Crawford beating Brook better than G isnt that significant when one looks at the contexts of who fought the better Brook.
     
    Greg Price99 and JacK Rauber like this.
  9. JacK Rauber

    JacK Rauber Try not to offend, try harder not to be offended Full Member

    7,908
    6,429
    Oct 20, 2013
    No, I knew very little about either fighter going into this fight but based on what I saw they were both long on pride and effort and short on technical proficiency. Neither deserves to be in the P4P discussion. And, frankly, I get tired of hearing about the Mexican Warrior mantra all the time. There are great fighters from every corner of the globe. What makes SOME fights between two Mexican fighters compelling is they don't take a backward step, they are so prideful. But to suggest they are more talented or brave than fighters from other parts of the world is offensive.
     
  10. 22JM

    22JM Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,571
    3,367
    Sep 10, 2016
    Above ggg loma spence Crawford that's for sure
     
  11. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

    13,790
    6,812
    Apr 3, 2012
    It's comparing a prime fighter at a large size disadvantage to a past prime but still good fighter in the correct weightclass. Crawford also did better than Spence. Brook has only lost at the elite level and hasn't even been especially close to losing otherwise. Boxers who recover from orbital fractures can generally fight after. Broken bones fully recover.
     
  12. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

    13,790
    6,812
    Apr 3, 2012
    It also would've been comical if Bob and Loma continued to avoid the big names at 135. Teo looked vulnerable and got his number called, but had Loma secind guessing himself in the ring. I'm not especially impressed with Lomachenko's opposition between Gary Russel and Teo. Winning a few rounds late against Salido does not excuse skipping Berchelt and others.
     
  13. shza

    shza Member Full Member

    320
    334
    Dec 15, 2018
    Berchelt is good but he was never top 10 p4p, so I wouldn't say Oscar is top 10 just yet... top 20 for sure, though. Lopez got in so fast on most people's lists because he beat a top 5 guy.

    If Valdez unifies and beats a boxer like Loma or Shakur, he's in.
     
  14. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

    63,752
    12,728
    Jul 26, 2004
    I think calling welterweight the correct weight class for current Brook is highly debatable. I also thinks its more than plausible that a completely hydrated, well fed and filled out middleweight Brook is a more formidable opponent than a drained 147lb one. Brook looked like a corpse leading up to the crawford fight and its long been the agenda for him to leave the division.

    ....

    I suspect its more mental, and lack of activity/motivation with brook, along with being older, rather than him being worse specifically due to the face fractures.

    His next fight will tell us a lot.

    ....

    At any rate, I just think when one really looks at where Brook is at, compared to where he was when he fought G, and ask whether welter is really even all that suitable for him, I just think Crawfords victory being marginally better is an overall negligible point and unworthy of mention.

    I also dont know why you rate Postol and Brook so highly that you have Crawford that high. They are good fighters, but not sure they validate Crawford being number 2. Ya hes been through the divisions... but that loses its value when you begin to analyse his resume and see who hes actually fought.

    But anyways, just my meaningless opinions, other than that I can see why you listed as you did.
     
  15. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

    13,790
    6,812
    Apr 3, 2012
    I don't value current Brook that highly. But it means something to outclass him. Crawford is the first to outclass him imo.

    Postol back then was a legitimate, undefeated, fringe pfp fighter. Crawford outclassed him too, and it hasn't been done since.