where does RJJ belong ATG?

Lets not forget he beat Griffin who had beat Toney twice and who was undefeated at the time RJJ knocked him out in the first round. Contrary to popular belief Montel Griffin was a great boxer. Oh and by the way RJJ beat a 33 yr old Vinny Paz too

 

When he was 35 and tailing off badly. They were co-kings of 175 in the late 90s and never faced each other, while beating all the same dudes.
And if we're going to throw DM's losses that took place at the tail end of his career after starting 48-0, then we're going to throw in Jones' embarrassments too. You can't have it both ways.
The facts are, he bolted from 168 where all the dangerous opponents were, went to 175 where there was only one real challenger that had any chance to beat him, and he never faced him.
You can have your opinion that he belongs top 10, but history won't accomodate you because of Jones' safety first approach. This argument will dog him throughout future ATG debates. He'll never be unanimous like the true greats.

 

It's an uneducated opinion that bases AT-greatness on who one thinks he would've beat. You have to go by who he faced. He could've stayed at 168 and faced those killer punchers you mentioned, but he didn't. So you can't use "I think he would've beaten them", as substantive input. The more proper argument is, "He didn't face those guys when he could have, so we don't really know how he would've done against the top competition available. If you don't face the best of your era, you can't be among the best of all time.

 

I think ring magazine has him at #44.

I'd probably have him a little higher - but that may be the recency effect.

 

Easily above DHL, who needed a gift decision against Pernell. Roy Jones dominated future ATG's Hopkins and Toney in a way that noone would speculate about the result in a rematch. DHL was great in his prime, but Rpy was as close to unbeatable as it gets.

 

Well, those killer punchers at 168 didn't hit harder than John Ruiz. Even hard punching LHW's can't carry their power to HW. Jones in his prime wasn't botheres by power or skills or anything, his athletic abiltiy was simply too much.

 

this fantastic film fully highlights why jones doesn't belong in the top 100 atg

- no chin
- no heart
- no plan b
- drug cheat
- serial ducker

this thread is jam packed full of delusional, brainwashed americans :nut :nut :nut

 

I am unsure why people keep bringing up this H2H thing as the main factor for him being top 15 - even top 10!! Many looks good when fighting non competitive boxers.

I love RJJ. He is my favorite from the 90s. But he is not top 10, not top 20. Top 30? Yeah you might be able to make an argument. For me he is somewhere in 35-40. It is kind of superficial to rank athletes based on how flashy they are.

Ruiz and Toney was his two greatest wins.

And yes I would agree he would pummel almost any theoretical boxers he faced.

 

Well H2H is different, we are talking about ATG -- If I made a list he would no doubt be top 20 or 30 (mostly top 30 to be honest, top 20 is pushing it, but his H2H ability could get him in that position -- LATE top 20's, nothing before 25)... H2H is a VERY different. ATG takes a lot more into consideration than just H2H skill. RJJ is perhaps the most dynamic fighter in the history of the sport... if he had fought lewis after ruiz and somehow beat him, no doubt he would be top 5... if he had just lost to him and retired, he would be higher than he is now.

 

I think RJJ was a pretty damn great boxer and never gets the respect he deserves... a great resume, was massive in his day with the general public,,, I think he hung around too long and thats tarnished his image a bit.

 

not ranked - he is a drug cheat and was all hype.

 

I don't think he late losses tarnish his image. It was his refusal to face the toughest opposition and his steroid use. That's why people don't put him in ATG categories.

 

Jones NEVER beat a unified, undisputed, or lineal champion in his whole career. :deal

 

He bolted from 168 ?? Didnt he go up in weight from 160 to beat the man in the division in James Toney ?? You sure you want to go there with that arguement ??And who did he avoid at 168 ??

And at 175 are you honestly going to blame Jones for not wanting to travel to Germany to fight the virtual unknow in DM ??

Carl Froch recently said he would never fight in Germany but what is he ducking anyone ?? Don't have selective hate make sure you involve all the parties for not making certain fights as opposed to the star !!

The man is already considered a true great its his ranking among the lEgends thats up for question !!

 

ESPN has him at 46. I think thats pretty close to where he would rank, around 50ish. Not any higher and below DLH for sure. I would also rate pac ahead of him and by the time PBF is done he will be higher.