Where does Roy Jones Jr rank?

I find myself in funny positions concerning Roy. I have had some pretty intense debates with Louidon because I think he's overly critical of for example Hopkins but much more forgiving of Roy. But reading this thread I instead want to defend Roy from many of the unfair attacks he gets.

Especially the absolute nonsense of Toney being some sort of a gimme fight. Toney was undefeated with some really, really good wins and considered among the very top p4p fighters. But just because Roy beat him so easily it gets reduced to a nothing challenge. If you told that to people before the fight no one would have taken you seriously.

The win over Hopkins on the other hand only becomes really good in hindsight. Fair enough since no one thought much about Bernard at the time. But the fact is that the man would go unbeaten for another 12 years, despite have almost only title fights. He would turn 49 before anyone beat him more emphatically than Roy did.

And Ruiz didn't look like much, but he had some decent wins at HW and was a legit contender and Jones beat him like he was nothing.

 

This. If Jones had a better chin he'd be favourable over any body below 185 lbs
I have Jones as the second most skilled fighter ever, after Ezzard Charles.

 

Jones had brilliant skills, particularly attacking skills. His hand speed, ability to spot the slightest opening and exploit it and his accuracy (particularly early in his career as I think he developed a few bad habits later probably because he dominated so easily for so long) was out of this world.

Defensively RJJ relied primarily on his sensational reflexes and mobility. As he aged and his reflexes faded and his legs were shot he became an easy target which meant he was suddenly getting hit with the type of shots that simply would not have landed for the previous decade and a half. Jones didn’t have the defensive skills of a Mayweather or Hopkins that allowed them to excel into their late 30’s and 40’s.

In saying that Jones had a damn long, dominant extended run himself (the most dominant I’ve seen). His athleticism is arguably the best p4p in boxing history but these been more purely skilled fighters than him (and that’s not saying that they’re better fighters either).

 

Okay.

Did Roy have the opportunity to try and outbox a guy who was ranked that highly?

Hearns outboxed everyone. Look at his attributes.

Ray, Benitez, Hagler and Hill etc couldn't outbox him. You had to be aggressive and outfight him to win. Which is why I said that IF Roy had taken the fight (if it had been possible) he'd fought him in the way that Ray, Hagler and Barkley did.

In your previous post, you said that Roy couldn't have beaten Hearns, yet here you are saying he could have, on the grounds that apart from against Shular and Hagler, Tommy was poor at the weight in comparison to Roy. So now you have me confused.

 

Benn wasn't awful at MW.

Like so many other fights, Don King was the issue. Roy's advisors - The Levin's, never trusted him and according to them and Roy, he wanted future options which they weren't willing to give. Roy only worked with King a handful of times in his career, and only when they could reach a compromise. Roy's upbringing with his father made him very independent.

 

Roy missed out on a lot of fights. But like I've said many times, most of them weren't viable.

Personally, I think Bernard, Calzaghe and Toney were the best of his era.

He beat Toney, Bernard wouldn't rematch him in 2002, and Calzaghe was happy defending his WBO belt in Britain.

Dariusz was the big omission at LHW, but he wouldn't fight in the U.S. and Roy didn't think he'd get a fair fight in Germany.

 

I find your posts both entertaining and puzzling at the same time.

The way your mind works is quite extraordinary.

Hopkins would have tested plenty of ATG MW's. Because although he improved as he aged, he was still a very good fighter in 1993. He was 28 years of age, and you can just watch his fight with Roy to see that he'd have been a handful, especially as he's 6'1, with a 75" reach, and the greats of the past had same day weigh-ins.

Ward is one of my favourite fighters. But Toney would have tested him.

Your sentence below is the kind of thing which makes me smile:

"Toney wouldn't have cut the ring off against Ward, because he couldn't cut the ring off against Roy"

That line of thinking is bizarre. Because Ward and Roy were 2 completely different fighters, with very different attributes.

It's the old adage:

"Styles make fights"

Now we all know that Toney had weight issues going into the fight Roy. But as it ever occurred to you that the reason he was so awful, was that because Roy was so great and awkward for him to fight?

This is why Roy was never media friendly in the 90's. Because he felt so underappreciated.

 

Again, the fact that you personally found the fight boring has no relevance whatsoever.

It was a certain clash of styles, where both guys were a bit tentative.

Bernard had never fought anyone with that sort of speed, and Roy was fighting a bigger opponent with an injured hand in his first big fight.

If you had a time machine and you transported that exact version of Hopkins into today's era, he would be one of the best MW's in the world. In fact, I'd favour him over Canelo.

 

Great post.

In 1995, Benn really did want to test himself against Roy. And I believe that Gerald would definitely have called Roy out big had it not have been for the tragedy that occurred. But even then, you'd still have had King as a huge stumbling block.

 

What could he do that Canelo can`t, he didn`t have a better defense at that point and Canelo would have thrown far more leather at Roy. GG would have destroyed B-Hop from `93.

 

Roy was so impressed by G-man when losing to him in the amateurs that he later stated he would never fight Gerald as a pro.

 

Ward had clever footwork is what meant.

 

Roy wasn`t a contender when Benn was at middle he moved up to super middle after losing to Eubank in 1990 and won his WBC title at 168 in `92, Roy won his first world title v Hopkins at 160 in `93.

 

Bernard would have toyed with Tarver in either 2002 or 2003.

 

It all depends on your criteria.

I don't mind people rating Floyd that highly, but he took vacations that Roy never took, and he also pulled a number of stunts over the years in order to gain advantages.

Marvin was cut from a different cloth. But I do think that it was easier to make bigger fights in Marvin's era,meven though he came up the hard way and to wait years for his first shot.

If the 'Fab Four' fought today, I don't think we'd have seen half of the fights.

As we all know, Roy missed out on lots of great fighters of his era. But we have actual proof of him wanting to fight the following guys:

Benn
Liles
Dariusz
Hopkins (2002)

We also know that guys like Calzaghe were never interested in fighting him.

Imagine if those fights above had been made and added to Roy's resume.

That would have been a hell of a resume.

It's a real shame that we never got to see them.