Where does Roy Jones Jr rank?

Benn wanted to fight Jones.

 

I`m good at speculating because I`ve got no frigging idea.

 

Spinks was rated 24th in a list of the greatest fighters over the last 50 years in 1996 by the ring magazine, Antonio M. was never rated as an ATG in his respective weight class and Spinks could bang hard enough to knock a heavyweight out I don`t think Marvin had the power to knock out Cooney.

 

Look, you're a huge fan of Bernard's.

You're gonna fight his corner like I do for Roy.

He's your guy.

I respect that. But like I told your before Christmas, you cannot pretend that they just couldn't reach a compromise and that they were both responsible for the fight not happening.

Again, that was not the case.

In 2002, Bernard's biggest purse at that point had been $2.5m which he'd gotten for facing Tito.

Most of his previous purses were $1m and under.

Roy was getting guarantees of up to $4m for fights.

Roy held a win over him.

Roy agreed to move back down to 168 for a fair C-W.

HBO along with Roy's advisors, met with Bernard privately away from the cameras, and he was offered $6m, which was more than 2 x what he'd got against Tito.

The proposal was turned down flat.

He demanded $10m or no fight.

They went back to him again, and he still wouldn't budge on his stance.

Roy was to get $8m, Bernard was to get $6m, but he wouldn't back down. Mark Taffet of HBO has confirmed that.

He then took a year out of the ring before fighting Hakkar for $1.2m.

He then challenged out all of the JMW champs live on HBO in his post fight interview with Larry Merchant.

There's nothing more to say on the matter.

It couldn't be any clearer.

He remained at MW for another 3 years.

He did not want to fight Roy in a 2002 rematch.

 

Yes, I am a Hopkins fan and you are an RJJ fan...the difference is I hold both responsible, while you give RJJ a free pass on everything including every unmade fight. That’s fine that your “opinion” is rooted in stone, it just does not make dialogue or debate very fun or productive.

Good luck

 

Of course.

His resume suffers due to those missing names. But answer me this question:

How could he make guys fight him when they clearly didn't want to?


Chris Eubank - 2006

"Fighting Roy would have been suicide. I never pursued the big named U.S. fighters, as I was happy to defend my WBO title"


Jack O'Halloran (Frankie Liles' manager) - 2002

"In 1996, we had a great fight lined up against Roy Jones. But Frankie blew it by going back and asking for money. He got too big for his breeches, and I told him 'see you later' And it was a real shame, as I think he had the beating of Roy Jones"


Joe Calzaghe - 1999

"Be honest, Roy Jones is a good fighter. But I'm not chasing him. I don't want tough fights"


Kerry Davis of HBO - 2001

"I have tried everything possible to try and sit down with Peter Kohl, (Dariusz' promoter) but he will not take my calls. We can't even get the ball rolling. He won't even give us a figure to work with. I have also recently faxed over a proposal of a double header which would see Dariusz fight in the U.S. for the first time, but unfortunately, the proposal has been turned down flat without any negotiations"


Mark Taffet of HBO - 2002

"We approached Bernard and offered him $6m and a potential comeback fight on our network, but it was turned down flat. He demanded $10m or no fight. So it was clear at that point that he wasn't interested"

 

Correct.

 

How can Roy be held accountable, when he sent his advisors along with the head of HBO to meet Bernard privately in the hope of making the fight?

How can Roy be held accountable for Bernard demanding $10m, when his biggest ever purse had been $2.5m?

Bernard did not try and negotiate.

He turned down the offer flat and asked for a ridiculous sum of money which he knew wasn't possible.

What more do you need?

Just admit that he didn't want it.

He turned down $6m to instead target fighters from the JMW division.

Those are the facts. Not my opinion, but actual facts.

You're not bringing anything to the debate by refusing to acknowledge them.

 

Only a handful of guys truly wanted to fight Roy when he was in and around his prime.

They were:

Benn
Collins
Nunn
Tarver

 

I think neither of them are totally blameless for the rematch not happening in 2002. I dare say that whenever a potential mega fight fails to be made, there is at least an element of blame attributable to both sides. However, usually one side shoulders a lot more of the blame and responsibility than the other, and here I think that falls on Bernard.

He was living in a fantasy land if he ever thought he was getting a 50:50 split. He wanted to take Jones down to a catchweight, with Jones' titles on the line, having already lost to Jones once and knowing that Jones was the bigger name and draw (Bernard had taken the short end of the purse against Tito, and that was his biggest payday). Of course, in any negotiation you try to wrangle some concessions in your favour - but when you look for so many of them, it just gives people ammunition to think that you're not really being serious, and you're just paying lip service to a fight that you don't really want.

Of course, you could argue that if Jones was so confident of beating Hopkins (which I'm sure he was), then he could have just let Bernard get what he wanted and still taken care of business. But it's a tough business and a short (although in both men's cases, I wish it were a little shorter!) career, and I can at least understand why Jones felt that a 50:50 split was just a bridge too far.

Given that Jones had agreed in principle to the catchweight, and that he was the one risking his titles, I think he gave Hopkins enough leeway. Jones COULD have given way here, sure - but in this scenario, I think it's Hopkins who SHOULD have done, if that makes sense. Personally I don't think either guy was desperate for it in 2002; Roy arguably didn't need it, and Hopkins arguably didn't want it unless it was under a specific set of circumstances. But I think both parties would have been willing to make it happen if their egos hadn't clouded the picture.

 

No one talks about Nunn much but at least you can recognize, I hope, that RJJ wanted nothing to do with Nunn

 

I've got no issue with anyone who criticises Roy for not fighting Nunn when he was his mandatory in 1997, at LHW.

Roy disrespected him and messed him around.

He should either have fought him or relinquished the belt straight after the Griffin fight.

In my honest opinion, I think he felt as though he was in a no-win situation with the fight. Nunn was faded but still gifted, and the fight wasn't worth much money at all. So I don't think he fancied it. But for what it's worth, I don't actually think that he was scared of losing to Nunn. Not when he'd tried to fight Liles the previous year, and he almost fought Douglas.

To this day, I still can't believe that the WBC gave Roy his title back, after Nunn and Roch had already fought for it in a vacant title bout.

That was absolutely outrageous.

 

You are the only one who does not see fault (at least as far as making the fight goes...they are both well within their rights to negotiate the best deal possible), for this fight coming off.

Roy was not some PPV giant you must have missed that there were more shares from Hopkins vs Trinidad than RJJ Was bringing in.

Also you convienently skip over one of the big hold ups which was a rematch clause where RJJ again wanted one but would not concede one.

There are many ways not to make a fight happen, and the money was a part of it but not the whole. Most people can see this or read

http://www.espn.com/sports/boxing/columns/story?columnist=rafael_dan&id=5046549

https://www.google.com/amp/s/articl...rts/2010/04/hopkins-jones_rematch_finally.amp

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/04/sports/boxing-jones-haggles-over-purse-with-hopkins.html

https://www.ringtv.com/122013-hopkins-motivated-for-jones-rematch-in-2010/

 

Chris, when it comes to guys like Roy, Bernard and Calzaghe, you are one of the most knowledgeable and objective posters on this forum.

I always enjoy reading your posts.

However, on this occasion, I can't agree with you. Because the 50/50 argument wasn't even the stumbling block.

The famous 50/50 argument was aired live on HBO. But at a later date, HBO's Mark Taffet along with Roy's advisors, approached Bernard privately away from the cameras.

At that point, he didn't say to Mark Taffet that he still wanted a 50/50 split.

He demanded a $10m purse.

So even if Roy had agreed a 50/50 split, it wouldn't have made any difference whatsoever.

It was simply: "$10m or no fight"

It was an astronomical figure.

We know what happened afterwards:

He fought Morrade Hakkar and then challenged out all of the JMW champs live in his post-fight interview, which is when Merchant criticised him.

Roy was not at all to blame for the fight not having happened.

Bernard clearly didn't want the fight.

It was nothing to do with not being able to have reached a compromise.

He obviously deliberately priced himself out as he wanted to take on lesser challenges.

 

Ah, well to be honest I had no idea about those more advanced negotiations, so will yield to your deeper knowledge on this one! Thanks for the info. As I said, I never attached too much blame to Jones in any case, and always felt it was Bernard who put up the stumbling blocks to this fight happening. But if this is the case, then it makes it even harder to make a decent case for Hopkins not being the party pooper.