Where does Roy Jones Jr rank?

Not sure if you have ever done contract negotiations or not but even in simple business or corporate negotiating money is but a small point In The negotiations and they can be skewed in multiple ways.

Money alone was not the issue, it was but a component. So was rematch clauses etc.

A cheap example from a union I was part of 2 years ago...we got a $0.75 pay raise, and the company touted their generosity. We should be glad huh? What they did not disclose publicly was that they were decreasing our insurance % and in spite of a $0.75 raise hourly I now brought home $30 weekly less than the previous year.


So money was an issue and likely a key hinge point. But so was a rematch clause. Hopkins said I have worked to hard not to make sure I have security...if Jones loses he gets a rematch...I want that same security! Is that wrong?

So I guess it depends on how you view it.

 

You are really reaching here.

First of all, 3 of the 4 articles that you have posted are from their 2010 rematch. They are not at all relevant, as they only briefly skip over what had happened in the past.

The only link that's relevant is the one from 2002.

However, that 2002 article was printed just a day or 2 after HBO's double header show, which aired Hopkins-Daniels, followed by Roy-Kelly. The article basically just covered what was said in their famous live argument.

At that point in time, Roy wanted a 60-40 split, whereas Bernard wanted a 50/50 split.

What I've been referring to, is that AT A LATER DATE, Mark Taffet of HBO met Bernard privately. And at that extremely short meeting, Bernard didn't demand a 50/50 split like he had during the famous live argument. No. At that point, he demanded $10m or no fight.

Again, there was no negotiation.

He didn't want a 50/50 split.

He didn't query whether or not Roy would take less.

He didn't try and negotiate to try and gain more than the $6m which was offered to him.

Again, it was simply: $10m or no fight.

A ridiculous demand that everyone knew was never feasible.

He simply did not want the fight.

His actions afterwards speak volumes:

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Yep. Won The Ring FOTY in ‘91, too.

 

Pac also won his first title at flyweight. That's about 40 lbs south of JMW.

We're getting sidetracked here, but you're missing the point. No shame at all in staying at your weight class and defending your title. No knock on Marvin for that, he was a great champion, but I can't see how that is challenging himself more than any other champion. Stepping up to LHW would be a challenge. Not saying he had to take it, but I have a hard time seeing why he should be used as an example when he didn't. SRR, SRL, Tiger, Walker, Greb, Foster, Hearns would be some more obvious choices.

 

Hopkins very little but Toney was either #1 P4P or #2. It was a meeting of the top two fighters in boxing.

 

I respect what you have written above. But once again, at the specific point in time that I'm focusing on, there were NO negotiations.

Do you understand that?

They were no negotiations about a rematch clause and the C-W etc, because Bernard demanded $10m which instantly killed the fight.

At that point in time, Mark Taffet knew that he didn't want the fight, which promptly ended the meeting.

Bernard then had 12 months out before fighting Hakkar on HBO, before he then issued challenges out to all of the JMW champs.

Stop digging your heels in.

It was nothing to do with not being able to reach a compromise.

Hopkins just didn't want it, and his actions prove that.

 

I get your point, and those former greats that you've mentioned all deserve huge credit, especially Greb. We know that Greb fought Tunney. But most of the others didn't fight guys like Michael Spinks.

Look at Marvin's stature. He was 5'9, and he was in tremendous shape at MW, where he used to weigh in well below the limit.

I don't think he had the frame to gain additional weight.

He was in peak condition weighing in at 157 pounds back in the days of same day weigh-ins.

It would have been a huge ask for a 5'9, 157 pound guy to move up and fight a peak version of Michael Spinks.

Spinks was an ATG LHW who was 6'2, and who possessed a 76" reach, and who also had to train down from around 200 pounds.

SRL's forage into the LHW division doesn't compare, and guys like Hearns and Foster were huge in comparison to Marvin, with Foster having had fights at HW in the same era.

 

Spinks trained down from 187-192 pounds.

 

Yes.

My mistake.

I should have said "from around 190 pounds"

You get the point.

He was a big guy.

Too big for a guy like Marvin.

 

Read the post you responded to again. It answers the above.

 

Ammendment - Toney was P4P #2 and Jones #3.

 

I've either misread your post, or you're saying that although it shouldn't be held against him, Marvin didn't challenge himself in the way that those fighters which you mentioned did. Yes?

 

Yes. And, yes, if he had moved up and faced Spinks maybe it would have been a greater challenge than what most of them did. But he didn't.

Again, not that he had to in any way. He had a great career as it was, but moving up was the obvious challenge, albeit a big one.

 

That's okay.

I was just pointing out that their circumstances were very different, and they may not have moved up and fought Spinks had they been in Marvin's position.

 

Maybe not. It seems quite logical that he stayed at MW. Most would have.