Where Does Sonny Liston Rank As An ATG Heavyweight?

This sports page has a lot of great articles from that era....for us kids who were there would recognize: Arnold Palmer, Early Wynn, Sandy Koufax, American Basketball League, Carry Back race horse, first expanded baseball leagues, college basketball scandal, plus grocery prices 1/10 of what they are today.

Thanks for the info.

LH71

 

I have always had a soft spot for Sonny, always liked him (not sure exactly why), but I just can't find a spot for him in my top 10 list.

 

I have him at 11 or 12. Great fighter but if you take everything into account, certain things such as title defences let him down. He could of been more dominant than he actually was. Not all his fault i guess, as he should of got a title shot much earlier. Still an ATG in my book tho.

 

I have him anywhere from number 10 to 12. Weak era and shitty championship count against him. Also, a bit ponderous and clumbsy at times. But certainly a great, great fighter.

 

You sure? These guys dont look weak to me. In fact I see some very good talent here on film....Talent and Speed I didnt see last night with Chagaev.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWbpM99wD2M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezLbrjlyTuQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lhAdAhaRnk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCUkqyfUjTU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K70RUqCBtj4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIGXJNxahxY

Not at all. Liston was one of the best scientific boxers by my estimation in heavyweight history.....The man was very calm and cool the way he sat back and jabbed his opponent to death waiting for them to come into dangerous waters so he could unleash his artillery. I dont see how you could call him clumsy either....Liston was a very accurate finisher always getting the precise knockout blows home needed to finish off the other man.....something wlad klitschko has been lacking lately.

 

How so? Liston fought the top rated most dangerous challengers in the division that Cus Damato was avoiding, and liston beat them all cleanly and clearly.....Every single top 10 rated opponent liston beat other than nino valdez was under the age of 30...so liston was also cleaning out top rated men in there PRIME.

 

Can't consider him an ATG. He led a reign of terror for a few years, but he too readily threw away his title like it wasn't worth fighting for, and made no effort to get it back.

 

I don't really see those vids as proof of a particularly great era. One vid shows one of Liston's top opponents getting completely blown out, another shows another of his best wins getting outpointed by just a moderately talented fighter.

It's not so much the talent that determines how good a fighter is, but what they make of it.

 

Not really. He was simply an old rusty champion who got beat the **** out of by possibly the greatest heavyweight of all time. Certainly nothing like throwing ur belt away ahead on all 3 cards with 2 rounds to go vs man you outweigh by 50lb and stand 8" taller.

 

Ya it shows just how devastating this particular puncher was..this era was filled with dangerous punchers and top boxing stylists

Watch the fight. It was a hometown decision. folley knocked him down and outboxed him in this fight despite looking less sharp than usual...It wasnt even one of folleys better film performances yet you can clearly see the man has serious skills, top fundamentals ,and a terrific jab..Folley knocked this man out in TWO DEVASTATING rounds in the rematch.

 

Henry Cooper beats Zora Folley, but Brian London appears to get Cooper's title shot against Patterson in May of 1959.

Did Cooper get hurt?

Anybody know the story?

 

Its not Folley Williams machen valdez fault they all got denied title shots out of fear of champions management...all of these men very well could have been heavyweight champion during the late 50s...they just never got there shot till they were way past there prime.


Even far past there prime Folley patterson and Machen still managed to beat some of the late 1960s top ranking heavyweights

 

No, he was the most feared HW on the planet, a 7-1 or 8-1 favorite, and the fight was dead even, facing a much less experienced fighter who had shown clear vulnerabilities against Doug Jones and Henry Cooper in his previous two fights.

He just threw his title away. There's no excuse for doing that.

 

I don't see a whole lot in any of those fighters.

KO'ing Williams was a veritable right of passage in the 50's/60's. He passed the eye test with flying colors but that's about it.

Terrell was at least modern sized but lacked power.

Folley couldn't compete today, not durable enough with the kind of power being pitched today.

Outside of his dismantling by Ingo, Machen was sturdy and had decent skills but was just not much physically, no great power, no overwhelming speed and small.

It's not Liston's fault but this group is just rather sad in comparison with the way the division developed in subsequent decades. Liston seemed more a fighter in the 70's and beyond mold, which is why he went through those guys like a hot knife through butter.