Where Does Sonny Liston Rank As An ATG Heavyweight?

Frazier. 1968.

 

Yeah, and he got knocked out cold by Martin right after that, which doesn't exactly show he would go through anyone like a knife through butter. Martin could hit a bit, but he wasn't THAT big a puncher. His KO percentage is barely over 50% and other than Liston, the best opponent he stopped is an old Mildenberger who was one fight away from retirement.

And if Liston really was slipping like you are suggesting, then anyone unexpected could've taken the crown. In '89, no one was thought to be able to dethrone Tyson. Half a year later, an unknown entity did it. Baer, Bowe, Foreman and others all lost their title to someone they weren't expected to, and all became complacent before it.

 

Good stuff mate, I'm impressed. You must be a good quality player. I used to play competition too and club level, but only as a junior. Always enjoyed my first day signing up at Hoylake Tennis Club and there's me with my 'accent' and Bjorn Borg Fila top, thrown in straight away with the best posh kid- and thrashing him 6-1 6-2.

 

Don't get me wrong, i DO think that Liston was slipping in '64, but not to the extend that is being suggested. A fighter who is rusty and/or ringworn does not produce such an easy knockout over such a high rated boxer. You need accurate timing and reflexes for that. Just because he made it look easy, does not make it easy.

As for us not being able to see him tire early because the fight didn't go far: apart from what i've stated this paragraph above, it's just speculation.

You speculate that he would've tired or slipped away late in the fight. What if i speculate that he would've held up just fine? No one of us can prove our case. But what we do know is that his timing, accuracy and reflexes were spot-on.

 

I took a trip to the Boston Public Library just last week and got a print out of the page from the

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with the Tobin Liston household. No son "Charles" is listed. Some surprises though, -In 1930, Tobin was 58 years old and "literate" as was his 28 year old wife Helen ("Big Hela"). The beatings Sonny said he sustained as a boy were given by an old man.

The youngest in the household in April of 1930 was Curtis at 6 months. If this is an accurate record, then it means that the earliest Sonny could have been born would have been in the summer of 1930. Which means that the oldest he could have been in December 1970 when he died was 40. Chances are very high that the fighter who laid down at Ali's fight was no more than 34.

In a few years the 1940 U.S. Census will be released. That will bring as much closure to the question of Sonny's age as we're gonna get.

 

McGrain,

That would be fascinating, though you're right, it is unlikely. His neighbors and I believe siblings remembered in the 60s that he was the second from the bottom of the brood which puts him after Curtis. His mom went no further back than 1929, though she did say '31 at another time

 

LMAO!!! In our senior school championships this unknown but uber consistent (in hindsight lol) panzy kid snuck up on the mate and i and whupped us in the semi and final. In the final next year he bought his big female cheer/fan squad but i was aware of him this time and beat him 3,1 and 1

Ended up playing some decent tennis but there were 3 or 4 or 5 here i could not touch in singles. Matched up quite ok in doubles tho. The ex partner and i used to make a living beating more talented teams thru sheer determination, consistency and refusal to fold. If better teams were off even a little bit we would grind them down most every time.

If i played in a bigber city like Brissie i would have been just another dirty old hacker tho and not even in top grade.

lmao @ the Fila top hahaha. I've got a couple of more modern Fila prototypes around here somewhere

No Dunlop Volleys tho

 

Usually around 5th or 6th.

 

The thing with Liston is he did everything without a great corner. You look at all the other top heavyweight champs and they had terrific corners. Great corners. Not Sonny. I would've liked to have seen him with the benefit of an elite trainer. The fact he went as far as he did is amazing.

 

I disagree. Liston had a good trainer in Willie Reddish. If you watch Liston as an amatuer on film in 1953 then watch him in 1959....Complete different fighter. Reddish really developed listons jab from a push to a punch, added a devastating right hand to listons repoirtre, and straighened out listons punching technique and improved his head movement tremendously