Where does Wladimir Klitschko rank among ATG HWs?

Playing the race card, are we?

How very typical.

Can't win the war of words so your only refuge is to drag the argument down to the gutter.

You idiots can't possibly defend Wlad based on his accomplishments so you're fishing for any and every Red Herring to distract from the FACT that your hero is NOT a great heavyweight.

I ask again, WHO has Wlad every beat?

 

Keep your electric eye on me babe,
Put your Ray Gun to my head..

Space out in a Moonage Daydream...Oh yeah!

 

The problem with the argument, " he never beat an opponent of notoriety" is that some eras simply don't have such opponents. Its not as though Wlad has ducked anyone of significance. He has fought and beaten everyone of value over the past 8 years. You can't ask anymore than this..

 

Back to boxing since I'm sure David Bowie over Nay-Sayer's head.

That was point. You have some eras where contenders had to literally clean out the top 10 before getting a title shot.

Than you have eras like right now where things aren't done that way. Contenders are groomed, records are preserved, usually fight one top 10 opponent, than are negotiated into a title shot. Just the way it is now. After losing in dominant fashion to Wlad and Vitali, really nothing else to do for them, so you have inactivity and retirements. Sultan and Brock are two such opponents and I think they were tremendously talented inspite of achievements.

 

Please spare me your strawman arguments.

I never accused Wlad of ducking anyone - BUT - since you went there...

Why weren't there immediate rematches of the Sanders and Brewster fights? I think Sanders deserved a rematch, even after his loss to Vitali. Why didn't that fight happen? Why did the Brewster rematch have to wait until Lamon had been out for a year for eye surgery? Why fight Lamon coming off of a LOSS, one year of inactivity and *eye surgery*?

I think an argument can be made that Wlad ducked both Sanders and Brewster.

Having said that, the FACT still remains, Wlad has not fought a heavywieght of any notariety in nearly TEN years. If by his own doing or through no fault of his own, the FACT still remains..

 

Fair criticisms. Can't disagree with those.

 

I don't think it has. I think many said that about Holmes and rightly so. He was around in a poor era and whilst there is always a level of negativity around current eras, I honestly think that if you study fighters from any previous era to now, you'll see a decline.

According to The Ring, in the decade from 2000-2010, Chris Byrd was the 4th best heavyweight and John Ruiz was the 6th best heavyweight. Lewis, Wlad and Vitali were the top three and Rahman was the 4th. Let's ignore the top 3 for a second and imagine that they didn't exist. Is an era were Byrd, Rahman and Ruiz are the next three strong? No way. That is an incredibly poor list. Byrd was destroyed in 5 rounds by Ibeabhuchi before shortly going on to beat Vitali. Rahman made a career off one punch and the highlight of Ruiz's career was beating a shot Holyfield.

The potential for the next decade is unclear. However, if we look at Wlad's likely decade of domination, from 2005-2015, what will that top 10 look like? We'll see Wlad and Vitali as the top 2, obviously, and who will round out the top 5? Povetkin, who has regressed as a fighter badly? Helenius, who is awful? Haye?

That is even worse than Ruiz, Rahman and Byrd.

I'm not the type of person who criticizes the modern era unfairly. I think the current 168, 154 and 118 divisions are strong, however, there is no question that the current heavyweight division is atrocious. There is simply no quality there beyond Wlad.

Wlad is the best heavyweight around, without question. However, that's like saying a Ford Fiesta is the fastest car in a race against 9 Lada's. It's not a great achievement to be the best against a poor bunch.

 

Not really. Wlad was Sanders' mandatory but he vacated the WBO title to fight the older brother for the WBC and Ring belt. And that's how Wlad/Brewster came about.

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Yeah, after the Brewster meltdown I don't think there was a rush to get Wlad back in the ring with him. Wouldn't call that a dodge though, that's a complete misunderstanding of the term. Wlad was out of the Ring top 10 and had to rebuild.

 

He deserves credit, absolutely, but does he deserve a high ranking? I don't think he does.

You can either give Wlad the benefit of the doubt and call him a great despite beating poor opposition, or you can be fair and judge him off what he's actually done. He's dominated, yes, but he's dominated a poor era and no matter how you flip it, a poor era is a poor era.

Had he not lost, I'd see that argument. However, the losses to Sanders and Brewster destroy his legacy.

 

-It has. You need to read more.


-Unforunately, true of almost any decade once you eliminate the big three you dip into the Byrd and Ruiz tier. In the 90s you would have Moorer and Old Foreman there, I don't know could make a big 4 case though they were rarely active at the same time. The 80s, overachieving journeman Weaver and maybe Spoon, who is the #3 here 3 fights Spinks..Dokes? 70s maybe Young and Norton. 60s was Quarry and Elis. 50s Satterfield and Valdez. I think its fair to put these guys on the same tier.

 

Agreed,

To clearify, I don't have him in my top 10. I actually rate him somewhere between 15-20. Frankly, i don't think that's unreasonable.

 

i didn't know the whole story.. Sanders situation was kind of iffy back then.. At one point, I remember some talk about even getting him together with Roy Jones, but don't know if that was a rumor. After the vitali loss, Sanders faded away, and I've never even heard it suggested that he and Wlad fight again.

 

-I honestly don't believe Sanders had any intention of fighting Wlad again or even defending the belt against anybody, I think he wanted to golf, cash out against the older brother..why not?, and retire..which ended up being the case.

-I don't know, I remember Wlad/Brewser II, Wlad/Valuev, Wlad/Sergei all getting tossed around at one point but nothing getting made. I don't think it was any of these fighters fault, just King and the promoters, especially not what Nay_Sayer implied with Wlad sadistically waiting for Brewster to be blinded.

 

IOW, Wlad ducked Brewster and Sanders.

If Wlad is to be regarded as one of the best HW champions of all time then please give me the rationalization behind NOT fighting an immediate rematch with Brewster? Why did Sanders not get his rematch? Sure, I understand that Sanders wanted to fight Vitali - but how come Wlad never rematched him?