Where does Wladimir Klitschko rank among ATG HWs?

I said Haye was an ATG at cruiserweight and even his staunchest critics would admit he's top 10 in that division, which does make him an ATG at cruiserweight.

Nobody ever argues that point, by the way. They just say "YOU SAID HAYE IS AN ATG!!! LOL!" and leave it at that, despite me repeatedly clearing it up. I'm sure everyone who I defend my point to actually agrees with me too, yet they still use it to diminish from my posts. Strange.

 

It was alright, yeah. One of his better wins but Haye is not a great heavyweight. In a few years, it's likely that historians will judge Haye just like Wlad fans did before the fight, talking about him being a glass jawed cruiserwight, who barely won against Valuev, was hurt against Barrett and did nothing of note at heavyweight.

And no, Haye's loss at cruiser doesn't affect his legacy there because he was green. It's a similar loss to Wlad against Purrity, and most people ignore that one too.

 

I was only checking with you, I wasn't diminishing anything.

By the way going by your criteria for what makes an ATG would you consider Denis Lebedev an ATG and if not what would be the fastest way he can reach that target?

 

No, I don't consider Lebedev to be one yet. The thing is though, the cruiserweight division has been around for such a short time that it's not impossible he could become one. Assuming Huck, Cunningham and Lebedev all fight each other, the winner of that series probably is an ATG cruiser. The only cruiserweight in history who is a lock would be Holyfield. The other 9 places will change over time and I'd expect Haye to drop out of the top 10 in the next decade or so, possibly being replaced by Huck, Lebedev or Cunningham.

 

When he beat Mormeck, he beat the man and later went on to unify the division. Not exactly huge achievements but enough to guarantee him a place in the top 10.

 

You dismiss Haye's loss at cruiserweight by saying it was like Wladimir's loss to Purrity, but in youre earlier post you used Purrity as a reason not to call Wladimir an ATG.:think

 

So ? Lennox (IMO top 3 or 4 ) has two such losses.

No very good ones ? How about Byrd (twice) and the one you touted as very good (Haye) ? Chagaev ? Chambers?

 

I probably mentioned it because 3 losses are relevant. Haye's loss is also relevant, but it's not a deciding factor and nor is Wlad's loss. A loss that early in a career isn't important, just like a loss at the end of a career isn't.

 

Glass Jaw Wlad got KTFO by 3 bums and his best win is Chris Byrd. How the **** could he be top 10?

 

For what it's worth, Haye turned HW at 27 years old. He was having trouble making 200 since he was 24. He's 6'4" and built like a brick **** house. He's a natural HW, just a slow bloomer.

And IF, IF he decided to unretire, he could STEAL the WBA paper strap, win Vitali's vacated WBC strap in 2013, and possibly become the UNDISPUTED HWCotW by 2015 should Wlad retire at 40.

Haye has the potential to be a solid 240lbr, and with his power, speed, and defense, he would give almost any HW fits if he would choose to exchange......and BTW, his chin aint as bad as folks make out.

But then again......he fights for $$$$$$, not fame or legacy.

 

Byrd beat Holyfield who fought to a draw with Lewis. Lewis was KO'd by Rahman who Wladimir beat easy. Lewis won an MD over Mercer whom Wladimir crushed easy.
But Lewis is an ATG and Wladimir isnt.atsch

 

Cafe, Derrick_Rose, JN43......now these guys are just being stupid.........and to think:thinkone of them recognizes the greatest basketball player of our time.:-(