Where is Bivol on the greatest LHWs if he beats Benavidez?

I don’t think it adds much more than he already has, I’d pick him to absolutely batter Benavidez atm, I’d rather see him fight Yarde, there’s no one really in his division who would really advance his legacy more that it’s already at, I guess him clearing the division may do that, but there’s no individual win that’d do much IMO.

 

Hi Mike
That makes perfect sense, there are far to many knee jerk reactions to a modern day fighters latest win.Evaluating them once they retire is a far better idea

 

I thought you said you were "not too knowledgeable on boxing history"?

Spinks boxed Qawi's ears off, one-shot flattened Marvin Johnson, floored & outpointed Mustafa Muhammad, & stopped Yaqui Lopez. What separates Bivol's best performances from those?

Even for times when the fighter still weighs under 175?

 

Brother he’s an Olympic medalist getting paid to fight twice a year… you can’t compare that to pros like Moore, Charles, Conn, Bivins, Johnson and Maxim off the top of my head… all of those guys did better under harsher circumstances, then there is guys like Spinks, Mustafa, Foster etc how about Loughran, Rosenbloom or Tunney? Maybe top 20?

 

early 20th century, Beterbiev is a hard hitting average sized heavyweight.

 

Just a super stacked division historically.

Especially since we have no qualms ranking men without titles. Tunney and Charles might be ATGs but they didn't bother, Spinks and Moore did. Just saying, in terms of LHW, maybe being the champion might should matter.

I don't really get the need to include them, they get their respects in p4p, that is what they did, but since everyone does then yeah it'll be damn hard to place Bivol inside of 20 tbh.

 

@175 he certainly could - he was a 3x titlist w/ dominant wins over Galindez, Prince Williams, & Parlov + a late career win over Leslie Stewart. All of that easily eclipses Canelo's sole claim to fame @175, which is a late KO of Kovalev after a competitive fight.

Qawi beat Saadx2 (not Marvin Johnson) both times in very dominant fashion, also had another dominant title defense vs. a very good contender in Bull Martin, & had other quality wins over James Scott & ex-titlist Rossman before winning the title. He won his CW title from unbeaten titlist Piet Crous (not Spinks) & even went on to compete @ hw before his career ended.

On top of that, elevating a bivol opponent on the basis of that opponent having previously beaten him is a circular argument.

 

I think you're underestimating the sheer numbers of great LHWs we have before 1950. And then we've got to get the RJJ generation and guys like Qawi and Foster in there. This is the CW age too which made LHW worse. Before 1950 everyones got HW feats and I don't just mean at HW I mean fighting HWs at LHW.

Just from your post I'd put in Loughran, Tunney, Moore, Bivins, Maxim, Foster and Charles we're already at 7 and I'm being selective.

 

Charles fought in the duration title tournament and lost to Bivins in the semi finals. He then lost to Marshall in a non title fight that if he'd won would have probably put him in line to be Bivins replacement when he went up to HW. Charles subsequent streak was rebounding from these losses and instead of cashing it in for a title shot went up to HW instead. The people calling him the GOAT or top 5 are insane but their case is simple 3-0 against Moore is all that matters and taking 11 knockouts in the 2 fights you were closest to contention does not.

Tunney won the ABA which was a major belt at the time. The reason the ABA wasn't lineal is because Levinsky lost to Carpentier and the IBU became lineal if Levinsky won its different. Had nothing to do with Tunney just a rare case of the Euros winning a unification bout. Before that the ABA was a major belt and after that the ABA was a major belt until it stopped existing in the early 30s.

 

The Pops downplay is insane. Did Johnson beat on your Dad?

 

Pops would beat the living **** outta Nelo at 175 for the first 10 rounds.

 

Qawi would destroy Bivol.

 

I fail to see how any of that changes what I said.

When a man you respect doesn't get the awards his idols did, it's okay, just pretend like he did and treat him like he did anyway. Justify it for him. You know, rather than holding boxers to any kind of standard. Move the goal post and claim it's all situational.

Doesn't change the fact that neither of them chose to gather the award the proves beyond any doubt they are best and so you have to justify their inclusion where a man like Spinks needs none.