{<Where is Evander Holyfield in ATG HW rankings?}>

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by catasyou, Dec 15, 2008.


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  1. catasyou

    catasyou Lucian Bute Full Member

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    You don't think Dempsey is a little high?Or Frazier a little low?
     
    catasyou, Dec 16, 2008
    catasyou, Dec 16, 2008
    #61
  2. jc

    jc Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Top 10 definately.

    Ali
    Johnson
    Louis
    Holmes
    Foreman
    Lewis
    Frazier
    HOLYFIELD
    Marciano
    Liston
     
    jc, Dec 16, 2008
    jc, Dec 16, 2008
    #62
  3. Tolstoy

    Tolstoy dead Russian novelist Full Member

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    I agree with that. Also even a lot of Holyfield's heavyweight victories were too close for comfort. Tyson on the other hand steamrollered the entire heavyweight division and although his reign wasn't especially long (it was longer than Marciano's 3 year tenure) it was supremely dominant. Tyson must be ranked above Holyfield in any serious ATG heavyweight list.
     
    Tolstoy, Dec 16, 2008
    Tolstoy, Dec 16, 2008
    #63
  4. DamonD

    DamonD Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Me personally, I'd have him around #7 or #8.
     
    DamonD, Dec 16, 2008
    DamonD, Dec 16, 2008
    #64
  5. Asterion

    Asterion Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1. Muhammad Ali
    2. Joe Louis
    3. Lennox Lewis
    4. Larry Holmes
    5. Rocky Marciano
    6. Jack Johnson
    7. Jack Dempsey
    8. Evander Holyfield
    9. George Foreman
    10. Mike Tyson

    Just missing: Joe Frazier, Sonny Liston, James Jeffries
     
    Asterion, Dec 16, 2008
    Asterion, Dec 16, 2008
    #65
  6. Quickhands21

    Quickhands21 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I have Holyfield at 7..One slot better than Mike..The fact is he beat him twice n thats good enough for me.. H2H prime for prime is another story.
     
    Quickhands21, Dec 16, 2008
    Quickhands21, Dec 16, 2008
    #66
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Holyfield above Tyson - Tyson has the better skillset, the more dominant run, I like him better against the field. Tysons' most hurtful loss is Buster Douglas, who, it's true, beat Mike, but it's also fair to say these men met rather different versions of this fighter. Regardless, Holyfield lost to Moorer near peak, which I don't think is a less hurful loss, and to Byrd and Toney, which I do think hurt his standing.

    Liston matched the very best contenders in the heavywieght division for 10 years and lost twice, to the greatest HW who ever lived. He was being matched in the world class inside his first ten fights, in 1954, and in 1970 he destroyed title challanger Chuck Wepner. Liston is the most roundly ducked champion of the modern era, across two runs in the division, and holds the most incredible pair of wins ever against a fellow champion and ATG in a pair of KO's over Floyd Patterson. I don't think there is a better choice for #3 unless you are placing Rocky Marciano there based upon his unbeaten status, and i'm not.
     
    McGrain, Dec 16, 2008
    McGrain, Dec 16, 2008
    #67
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Always makes me laugh, but it's especially pitiful coming from somebody critical of Lewis's match making policy.
     
    McGrain, Dec 16, 2008
    McGrain, Dec 16, 2008
    #68
  9. DamonD

    DamonD Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Oh, don't start him off again...
     
    DamonD, Dec 16, 2008
    DamonD, Dec 16, 2008
    #69
  10. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Anywhere between 8 and 15.
     
    DINAMITA, Dec 16, 2008
    DINAMITA, Dec 16, 2008
    #70
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I like it.

    Especially the way the details in his respnses dwindles the more ridiculous his position gets.
     
    McGrain, Dec 16, 2008
    McGrain, Dec 16, 2008
    #71
  12. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

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    It does hurt him. If his after prime career is as long as his prime career, he will have as many fights looking bad as he did good, and at the championship level. When he was beaten up by Toney that was years ago now. And he fights on.
     
    MAG1965, Dec 16, 2008
    MAG1965, Dec 16, 2008
    #72
  13. catasyou

    catasyou Lucian Bute Full Member

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    Holyfiels was already shot with Toney and you can make a case vs Byrd.
    Wepner a challenger?He was mostly a journeyman.....Foreman beat him in his 5th fight.Agreed that Liston was ducked,avoided and has great wins over Patterson but I still think he is high.
     
    catasyou, Dec 16, 2008
    catasyou, Dec 16, 2008
    #73
  14. catasyou

    catasyou Lucian Bute Full Member

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    I know you like rankings so can you make a top 10?:D
     
    catasyou, Dec 16, 2008
    catasyou, Dec 16, 2008
    #74
  15. DamonD

    DamonD Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think retiring after the Byrd fight would've been about right.

    He went 1-1-1 with Ruiz in a bad trilogy but that did give him another belt (even if he wasn't The Man in the division) and Ruiz's 'reign of terror' afterwards made many others look bad too and Holy giving Ruiz such a tough time more valuable in retrospect. He looked very sharp actually in beating Rahman and, even if Byrd soundly outboxed him, Holyfield gave it a go and would've gone out in a title shot in the US to someone considered in the top 3.

    After that point, you get the embarrassing stoppage loss to Toney and getting firmly outboxed by Donald and Ibragimov. Bates and Maddalone mean little, and the Oquendo fight was just godawful all round. The Savarese fight was actually very entertaining and a good showing by Holyfield, but it's still not worth a lot. Definitely not worth in exchange for the negatives.

    So I think calling it a day after the Byrd fight, with the benefit of hindsight natch, is the point where I would've liked to have seen Holyfield pack it in.

    He would've been 40 years old, with a final record of 38-6-2...and already in the IBHOF by now, too.
     
    DamonD, Dec 16, 2008
    DamonD, Dec 16, 2008
    #75
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