Where is Frank Mir's place in history?

Mir has his place but became an under achiever into the late years with having ironically the smartest IQ in MMA but never followed his own reasoning.his one downfall was not being able to deal with strong wrestlers,this kept his career in an up and down mode which i think further gave him trouble with other matches he should have won. Mir in retrospect should have went undefeated for years ,but took some fights softly ,often showing up over weight and his continous stamina issues.

After his motorcycle accident he dropped two losses so i don't put much into it.It was really with the Brock Lesnar era he would have ran into problems as his resume will show. We never got to see Mir vs couture bc Mir didnt want the fight out of respect that maybe would have told us more around that 2007/2008 period.

Hes good enough to deliver a loss to anyone but he dropped the ball alot,i think he was the first to utilize advance submission game with striking in the UFC early stages when it was just beginning to get refined but his chin was not very strong and in the end thats what cost him besides his lack of putting 100% into preperation. He has key wins at his best and key loses at his sub par fights. i still believe hes the best big man in submissions so he needs to be in a top 15 somewhere ,there are MANY guys that have dropped losses who would be considered better than mir, who i think style wise would almost always win against guys like Cro Cop and Nog,but did he accomplish more than they did? Thats subjective.

 

" Lesnar and Carwin shouldn't have been able to cut through him like they did."

I explained this already ,we are simply at a loss for perspective..im cutting it short there,...lets compare my picks from last week which honestly i should have went 10 for 2 if judged correctly...but....you seem to THINK you know alot..(you might ).well thats o.k too........but you may want to pay attention of I if
do?
"

 

He DId defeat them! and the point is it would be viewed as MANY guys top wins.......

 

You ever heard of Minotauro Noguiera?

 

Point scoring was never the issue for Mir on the ground,he didnt last long against strong wrestlers on his back( he was lucky in the Lesnar first fight) and Carwin smashed him along the cage. He would pose a bigger threat to wrestlers who got submitted often like Coleman / Randleman. Head to head against smaller fighters who relied on submissions ,would give him the edge. Lesnar would almost always defeat him bc hes smart and can avoid submissions as he showed after his first loss.

If mir has difficulties with Take down defense...well that sums up how the Lesnar fights would go almost always,bc lesnar had the best Ground and pound ive seen and physically hes to imposing if you cant stop the TD . Only Cain was able to get off his back against him,bc he was elite himself in wrestling.Not many guys are getting off their back against him,certainly not if he stayed in the UFC and progressed.

 

I was talking about Lesnar defeating Carwin and Mir. Both of who would be top rated guys when Lesnar fought them still.Lesnar fought mir in his second MMA fight and lost bc poor refereeing with a b.s stand up that put Brock right into submission leg lock position,a mistake that saved Mir bc he was close to getting his clock cleaned. This was healthy Lesnar who was on his way to being a very dominant force.

 

Honestly other than his submission game, Mir's whole career for me was quite average.

 

How would a prime Kharitonov have a done against Mir? I lean very heavily towards Kharitonov by KO.

 

Of course I have. Mir subbed him and broke his arm.