Where is Wlad on the ATG heavyweight list right now?

LocoRoco, name 100 better heavyweights.

 

in terms of hype and exposure? they're up there. vitali and even tyson are better than grant in long term significance, the mercer and morrison wins to were great for showing his heart and techincal brilliance respectively

 

At this point in Wlad career is almost impossible for him to be challenged by someone we deem as a 'worthy contender'... unless that person comes up with belts from a lower weight class (like Haye or Adamek) and beats a few solid contenders first. You just can't have an up-and-coming guy build up a resume that looks solid before being put in the meat-grinder. The only way Wlad going to get credit for any of his opponents is the way Lewis is getting credit for his win over Vitali, by looking at what the challenger accomplishes following Wlad's retirement.
All Wlad can do now is fight the top guys and win.

 

Well, if he cleans out the current crop at HW, he'll be a top 10 atg in my book...until then, he's at the bottom of the top 20. Keep in mind that the "current crop" includes Adamek, Haye, Povetkin and Valuev so this would be no small accomplishment...especially if he KOs them all.

 

Im gonna throw in a criteria of my own:

1. Quality of opposition (resume)
2. Impact on the sport (popularity, fame etc)

...and im gonna leave it there.

If you've fought (and beat) an excellent quality of opposition, chances are you have been a champion and defended the belt. For how long doesn't matter. In the days when there was only one belt that was harder to do so you cant really compare.

Impact: Some people critisize Louis for not having a great resume. Not only is that not entirely true but being who he was, at the time he fought, literally changed peoples lives.
Wlad Klitschko can't even get on American tv.

Thoughts?

 

No. The more important criteria (over time) is the quality of opposition relative to that which exists.

This era will largely be forgotten over time.

If not for a lack of subsidy, educational opportunity, and the immense size and commercial success of the three major sports in the US there would be five Alis, five Fraziers, and five Foremans simultaneously (or five Lewis, five Holyfields, and five Tysons) without ANY doubt.

Just like today in the NFL, NBA, & MLB there are far far MORE top caliber (by athletic capability and performance) players than in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, etc. Only in boxing has a sport been stripped down to a lower level than previously both quantitatively and qualitatively. Take your best young athletes out of a sport for several generations and the result is a lower competitive class with a largely dismal level of athletic quality. The sport also loses the upward impetus that a rising level of participation brings and the improvement for everyone EVERYWHERE of a higher level of overall competition and the affect that has in raising athletes to even greater levels of performance and athletic achievement. Just as the NBA's commercial success and worldwide popularity has brought up basketball quality in so many foreign countries, the loss of the initiative from US athletes has left professional boxing poorer for their absence.

But, anyone who has lived a bit can note that much of life is the repetition of cycles and what has occurred before usually occurs again. While the catalyst isn't apparent now there can be little doubt that one day you will see at least some high end quality athletes that are 6'5" to 6'10" that have exceptional hand to eye coordination, exceptional quickness and power, top level conditioning, and innate talent take up the sport.

The result will be an era even more impressive than the Ali, Frazier, Foreman era because it will be by even larger athletes and built upon the skill level of the past greats.

This era will be forgotten. The competition is pitiful. The two best are largely average athletes (or at least unexceptional or not extraordinary) with better size than their athletically woeful opponents. Nothing special here. Once better big men return there will be no reason to remember the ones from this time period.

I anticipate history will skip from Holyfield, Tyson, & Lennox Lewis to the next group of highly talented big men of the next couple generations.

Time will tell - and bring the long overdue change.

The US loves entertainment. It doesn't matter the place of origin. The US respects high level quality. It doesn't matter the background or the association. It is simply the performance. Right now, it worships the great large sized athletes it sees competing in other sports. It IS NOT watching professional boxing because the non-boxing professional ATHLETES and the young high school and college ATHLETES themselves don't respect or are not overly impressed by the professional heavyweights SPECIFICALLY and INCLUDING the Klitschkos.

That is simply and undeniably the truth of the matter. Regardless of how much unhappy partisans wish to attribute some other rationale.

If the athletic quality was exceptional there would be a hungry US audience wanting to see it. There isn't and that fact can't be objectively denied.


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The Vikings vs. Saints game was the most-watched NFL regular season game on any network in 14 years. It's also the best-ever rating for an NBC regular season football game. The rematch of last year's NFC Championship drew 27.5 million viewers.

 

every time i think about placing wlad, my gut says top 20 but then how many heavyweights are really better? many champions, as has been said on this thread, have many 1 or 2 defenses against poor opposition or maybe a single win over a very good heavyweight but based on nostalgia we rank them highly. if you took wlad's resume and accomplishments and put them in the 50s/60s he'd be a top 10 lock

 

atsch"The only good fighter Frazier beat was Ali"...you're right, Ali was WAAAY past it when they fought in '71 and Ali was never any good anyway...:huh. Also, for your own information... Frazier beat Oscar Bonavena, Jimmy Ellis, Jerry Quarry and Buster Mathis and I can say with certainty that Ellis, Quarry and Mathis were better than any current HW contender. The only real knock against Frazier is that his prime was pretty short, he got destroyed twice by Foreman and he never fought Norton or Lyle.

 

people forget that frazier's best work was done before he ever met ali. his prime ended on that night in 1971

 

Quite right.

 

I jsut want to say that your avatar is pretty much awesome.

 

Obviously the credit for its creation deservedly goes to some other avid fight fan.


Some photoshoppers are definitely making some cool fantasy fight posters.

 

Top12.

Right now, Wlad has been dominant for the same amount of years as Lewis, Tyson, Holmes and Marciano (5/6 years). Ali, Louis and Dempsey had more years on the Top (though Dempsey was inactive during the 1920s).

Since 2006, Wlad has 9 title defenses. That's better than Foreman's, Frazier's, Marciano's, Lewis', Holyfield's and Jeffries' reign. Mike Tyson also had 9 defenses in his 1980s reign. The only HW Champions that beat Wladimir in this aspect are Ali, Louis and Holmes.

Wlad has beaten decent fighters like Byrd, Brewster, Ibragimov and Chageav.

Wlad's statistics can compete with All Time Greats.

 

Well, if he's all that why do you have him so low on your ATG list? You, seriously can envision some 25 or so past fighters who could measure up to this 6foot and a half master boxer with two fisted power and incredible reflexes for a man his size? I see about 8 or 9 who could have troubled him greatly. The rest are either too undersized or lack his technical brilliance and would have been slowly beaten down, discouraged and eventually stopped. The dude is white and eastern European. Americans have a natural antipathy for Eastern/Soviet Euro's and are uncomfortable with a white man who dominates boxing's most prestigous division, the heavweights. Especially a man like Wlad; an old world European sportsman and a gentlemen who refuses to demean his opponents and would rather do charity work in his spare time than trashtalk and generally act the fool.