Where is Wladimir in the ATG's now?

+1

 

Wlad will need a real Nemesis to climb to the top 10

 

My good man you are right, everyone's list is different. but i'd like to address a point you made and justify it using my criteria.

my criteria is an equal measure of resume, legacy and H2H

Resume: i look at how the challengers were perceived at the time in regards to that specific era. obviously some names surpass this like beating ali is clearly better than beating byrd. but in the main i stick to within era rankings.

Legacy: this is a measure of achievements, for example louis reigned for 12 years, marciano was unbeaten, ali was the only 3 time champion, tyson recovered from a stretch inside to usurp the claim of the lineal champ etc. this is the most subjective and is based purely on my appreciation of ones accomplishments.

H2H: what styles did they encounter throughout their career, how dominat were they in their prime years, how many victories (don't look at losses here) did they have outside of their prime [for example holyfield gets credited for beating ruiz and rahman but doesn't get discredited for losing to byrd and toney].

So i look at a fighter and so a simple 2/3 to decide who goes top. My list as it stands is

Louis
Ali
Rocky
Johnson
Holmes
Foreman
Lewis
Dempsey
Liston
HOLYFIELD
Tyson
Frazier
Jeffries
Sullivan
WLAD KLITSCHKO
Langford
Charles
Walcott
Wills
Jeanette
Tunney
Patterson
Schmelling
Baer
Sharkey
Bowe
VITALI KLITSCHKO
Corbett
Fitzsimmons
McVey

Capitals denotes the fighter is still active so can theoretically move up.

 

unsure on my placement of tunney and corbett.

 

15-20 for me... not top 10

 

Id put him top 20 not quite 10

But there are some young guns comming through who are undefeated and improving. Nothing thats gonna rock the division but plenty to be defending against. There are also some resonable names in there too who have been around a bit. After a few years against that kind of oposition, take a look at his record.Iif he wins all he will have a very impressive and dominating record. Maybe missing some really big names but still a long and very strong reign.

There are a lot of judges out there who are too hung up with the fighters from back in the day to accept anyone new. Haters gonna hate. The fact hes europian probabaly doesnt help either.

You cant really knock his record though!!

 

Yeah, like Holmes has that win over Ali's corpse. But Ali's corpse is not a top ten heavyweight. Ali is, but not his corpse. For instance.

 

as a fan i would say to be top 10 he would have to beat these fighters before he retires, and ideally all by stoppage:

povetkin
arreola
solis (after he's fully healed and had a couple comeback fights)
helenius

and if he needs to fight lesser opposition while he waits for the guys mentioned above, he should pick:

winner of fury/chisora
any opponent who wins the vacated WBC belt once big bro retires.
and perhaps deontay wilder as his farewell fight assuming wilder actaually steps up his progress in the next 2 years.

if he beats 6-8 more opponents and retires without a loss, then he deserves to be top 5 or top 10.

he would have a record something like: 64-3-0 (56) which would include: multiple olympians, gold medalists, plenty of fighters with solid records, lots of mandatories and 20+ title defenses, high KO ratio, longevity, consistancy, ability to show a true champions heart by coming back from losses earlier in his career, and also avenging a loss. couple that with his physical talent for such a big guy and i have little doubt he will recieve these type of comparions after he is long gone.

already i am seeing the tide shifting. i remember years ago people saying he would never win another title. then he would never unify. and most importantly i am seeing people complaining how we need a ATG swarmer to get inside his defenses. by stating a previous ATG is needed to hypothetically beat wladimir is an unintentional admission by his critics that he has indeed joined the ATG dicussions now :good

 

I agree with this post.

In the title defenses department, Wlad is below Louis, Ali, Tommy Burns (11) and Larry Holmes (11 since beating Ali in 1980).

 

Bull****.

Frazier beat Ali. That's the best win in heavyweight history. However, it would be absurd to rank Frazier above Joe Louis.

Which All Time Great Heavyweight did Joe Louis beat?

Which All Time Great Heavyweight did Jack Dempsey beat?

Which All Time Great Heavyweight did Mike Tyson beat? (Don't mention shot Holmes because that's not even Tyson's best win.)

Rahman beat ATG Lennox Lewis...Why he isn't an All Time Great?


Your logic is flawed.

 

Number 2.



















Behind Valuev and ahead of Ali.

 

No, he's clearly too vulnerable to make top 10

Anytime someone lands a punch on him he sh*ts himself.

15-20

 

Thinking more 10-11, but that is just me.

Peace

 

:good:happy:happy:bbb

 

As far as I am concerned- if I was being generous- i'd mention him top 25...

I take nothing from him. We will never be able to accurately rate him amongst the greats because he was born in a weak era! He has DOMINATED his era but the opposition has no clout whatsoever! Even people with winning records are bums in the Heavies... He is a great fighter, but to place him high on an ATG list to me is unrealistic.

I'd rather talk about how he stacks up head to head... He is impressive, but he cannot accomplish what the ATGs have because of the weak era he reigns in.